BDR passes SPF GT40 at RA...the rest of the story!

[Randall Thomas]

Emotions are running high and keyboards seem to magnify them. This will go no where fast, but, I have an idea.

The upcoming Run and Gun has always been the benchmark for replica competition and revered for the shining light they cast onto the replica car world, giving them the sort of validity many other venues might not project.

So my idea is to have a manufacturers class at the upcoming Run and Gun. I have talked with Dean Lampe on this, among other ideas and he liked what he heard, provided there is the participant interest to support it.

The Manufacturers class would entail any replica manufacturer to bring a stock off the shelf street production car and compete in a class just for that. The other competing manufacturers would have the opportunity to look over and inspect each other's car to ensure it was indeed a normally produced production car with no special gimmick or Smokey Yunik type modifications. The cars would be fitting with a standard street tire such as BFG Radial T/A's. The engines and drivers would be the choice of the manufactures since neither can be classified or effectively restricted other than maybe Big block or Small block versions. Then the cars would be set to the pace.

It still would not be the final word, but as close to it as you would get in this world.

Since the location of the Run and Gun is in Hastings, Nebraska, it is right smack dab in the middle of the country and equally spaced for both east and west coasters as well as north and southern border dwellers. In addition, for anyone who has NOT been to Hastings, it is an absolutely wonderful venue, incredible hospitality from the town, and the absolute most fantastic host in the track owner, Mr. George S. Anderson would could possibly find. The "S" stands for School Bus, and if you don't know why, there is no way you'd ever believe me. You will, after you leave though. Oh yes, you will.

I would suspect any manufacturer who truly believe in their product would accept a very fair, honest and more importantly, friendly challenge such as this. This may also be the historic moment to catch both C.burn and MK-4 at the bar shaking dice for the next round... or, someone ringing the bell ringside for the next round. Which ever, it would be well worth the trip in either case all by itself (and that's my humor for the day) :-)

In addition to all that, I wonder how a class for each of the brands would gain interest? An ERA class. A Shelby class. An FFR class maybe. Also, a class just for folks who have never been to a Run and Gun event. And why not a ladies class? Some of those gals are dying to run their hubby's cars but they never get the keys! I know I don;t give mine the keys and it's her car! lol.

What do you think?

Randall

[Bailey]

This an interesting thread, and I am little biased. I'm on my second BDR TD car. There do seem to be some misconceptions out there that I'd like to clarify, and then keep my mouth shut.

Firstly. The FFR Spec Racer does not hold a candle to the Backdraft TD car in handling or braking, and because to be "spec legal" at 225fwhp, with a solid axle, the "spec racers" simply do not have the lap times. I know with my limited driving ability at Sebring, I am running 18 secs faster in a BDR TD car than I did in a spec legal FFR. They are great cars, provided that you run in a spec class, with a level playing field.

Secondly. The price of $15K mentioned for the FFR car is a kit, a crate full of most of the parts.The Backdraft is totally finished, all that is needed is a drivetrain. Painted, wired, finished.

Thirdly. A street prepped FFR 9 times out of 10 will perform better than a spec racer. There are no limits on power, brakes or suspension.

Fourthly.The notion that a Backdraft TD car needs to have "all kinds of stuff added" to be street legal is ridiculous. We have three TD cars on the road here in Fl, registered legally with NO modifications. Granted that is Fl, and I have no idea on the rest of the States, and their requirements.

We are all talking apples and oranges, why not enjoy this sport for what it is, and enjoy the ride.
It's really good to see people out there spending a little money and having some good clean fun.
Cheers,
Richard

[Cashburn]

You'll have to pry that information from MrLucky or BDR1. Good luck

[Excaliber]

I imagine it would take the same kind of "stuff" to make a race BDR legal as it would a race FFR. Nothing special, wipers, headlights, turn signals, etc. Having done all that it wouldn't be any different to register in any state, just like any other replica.

Not all the race only FFR's are built solely for the FFR race series, which does in fact require many stock comonents to keep the cost down.

The Mark 1 FFR that ran here in Oregon recently? The car originally had a live axle, the owner installed IRS, nice touch!

[nymathboy]

I like my FFR.

This is all fun.

Cars, car racing, car shows......It is all about a brotherhood. No need to brag......you make yourself look foolish. No need to put others down......you still make yourself look foolish.

I was at a car show the other day and saw a guy who looked 16 with a beat up 70ish firebird. I sauntered over there and said something like "I wish I had a firebird as my first car." Told him that he had a nice car on his hands. A big old grin came to his face. That is what these cars are all about.

Someone will always have a nicer car than yours. Someone will always have more money than you. Someone will always be faster or quicker than you. Chasing 1st place is like chasing the wind. Be happy with what you have and that is so hard for so many to learn.

[Cashburn]

Here's something to chew on...

[kayakjack]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Here's something to chew on...

This is really good info. I wasn't at the Sunday race (I was just there Saturday) so I wondered what happened.

A couple of questions:

- The numbers after the "make" sort of look like they represent the cc's of the car. But if so, both the GT40 and the Backdraft say "7000" which doesn't seem right. I think they were both small blocks. I don't know.

- Does the Backdraft have an "X" next to it's class signifying "not eligible for points or podium" because it is a replica? Or is it because it is the only car in Class 5?

- I wonder why the Superformance Cobra or the other Backdraft Cobras didn't participate in this race? The lone Backdraft was the only Cobra in the race. Saturday's race had more Cobra or Cobra related stuff on track.

- It is interesting that the Backdraft had the fastest race lap. 1:34 is booking around Road Atlanta. As far as how close these cars are to our "street" cars...

I am familiar with Road Atlanta. I know that my unprepared "roadster" Superformance could not do a 1:34. Even a better driver than me in my car couldn't do it. However, I could turn a time not horribly off the mark. In fact I believe that most of our cars could turn times faster than the fastest race laps of the slower cars in this field. I is also my belief that if I had an easily obtainable more powerful motor, a few suspension tweaks, race tires and a competant driver that my car would be in the upper 50% of this field. Again, I think that goes for any of our cars.

I am very appreciative of the efforts to bring these cars out in competition. It isn't cheap. The spectators loved it. I hope the marketing value makes it worthwhile. I hope lots of cars get sold.

Jack

[Excaliber]

I just don't see the connection here with Tony, a proffesional driver, running a specially prepared BDR with a "secret" motor and then making the jump that anyone can buy a standard issue BDR race version and expect to run the same kind of lap times.

In short, the car represented here and continually summarized as a "recent built", a "near stock" offering and "equivelant to" a standard issue BDR is pure BS. Assuming THIS car, the 00 car, is a recent build, it is certainly a continuation of the same specs (or better) than the factory preprared race car(s) that Tony ran before this most recent example.

I do believe Tony could get the same results with a factory prepared full on race spec FFR with IRS or a number of other replicas carefully prepared as well. This has more to do with the driver and the engine than it does the model of the vehicle in use.

[Cashburn]

Though I hate line by line swings, it has merit here:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I just don't see the connection here with Tony, a proffesional driver, running a specially prepared BDR with a "secret" motor

I fast car AND a fast driver make fast laps. This is a production car from Backdraft, you can read all about them at the links I have provided you several times. The engine as well is a production offering from Roush (NOT ROUSH/YATES) and you can read all about it at the Roush Engines site: http://www.roushperformance.com/engines/engines.shtml

Originally Posted by Excaliber

and then making the jump that anyone can buy a standard issue BDR race version and expect to run the same kind of lap times.

You can draw your own conclusions. No one is making any sort promises as to what you can do with the car except YOU

Originally Posted by Excaliber

In short, the car represented here and continually summarized as a "recent built", a "near stock" offering and "equivelant to" a standard issue BDR is pure BS. Assuming THIS car, the 00 car, is a recent build, it is certainly a continuation of the same specs (or better) than the factory preprared race car(s) that Tony ran before this most recent example.

Wrong again... you are comparing apples to oranges because you are making all sorts of wild claims without any facts or understanding of what the cars raced actually are. I'm sure if you are willing to pay the air freight on Tony's personal race rig to any of these tracks he would happily demonstrate for you the difference. Let's make it simpler for you, where are the wings and spoilers you whine so much about?

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I do believe Tony could get the same results with a factory prepared full on race spec FFR with IRS or a number of other replicas carefully prepared as well. This has more to do with the driver and the engine than it does the model of the vehicle in use.

Wrong again, a full on spec FFR would not have the power level to do this with, nor the brakes, nor anything else an experienced driver and owner of such a car pointed out. I assume "carefully prepared" means giving it a full race overhaul as opposed to what it came with FROM THE DAMN FACTORY MAN

[Backdraft]

Hi there,

I feel it is important to add our perspective to what happened at The Mitty. To start with I would like to thank the HSR for allowing us to race. We were given permission to run our cars as "Exhibition Cars" about 2 weeks before the event. This meant we were not eligible for points or trophies.The first thing we had to do was to get the cars as close to their regulations as possible. The 00 car had been set up to run in Nassa events. It had allot of aero with spoilers, a lemans hard top, 18 inch wheels , big brakes etc. We removed everything changed the wheels and brakes to get the car looking a little more period correct.

The second car #6 was built the week prior to the event. It is a prototype of the new "Cup" car we are going to be producing. This car was built using the new Ford 427 crate engine as a power plant with a TKO 600 trans. The 00 car has a Roush built 427RX with a TKO 600 tranny.For anybody who is interested both cars are for sale for $55 000 each. The main difference between the race cars and our road cars are the weight and safety features. Both cars use our standard chassis layout with a full cage added. The chassis come off our standard jigs and the body comes out our standard molds.

Our original plan was to be at the track on Thursday morning for the start of official practice. Tony missed his plane from South Africa and we did not have the cars ready. We finally left our shop after 7:00pm on Thursday and got to the track at 6:00am Friday. By this time Tony had arrived but his bags were missing. By 9:15 we were in the cars for our first practice. Needless to say things were not going smoothly. The second practice in the afternoon was better but we knew we had our work cut out for us. Dennis had set the fastest time in practice and we were far away.

Qualifying on Saturday morning was better but Tony was about 4 seconds slower than Dennis in the GT 40 and I was 6 seconds slower than Tony. The first feature race saw Dennis getting an easy win and we got an 8th place. Unfortunately the tranny in the #6 car lost 4th gear and we had to retire the car on lap 5.We were trying new carbon syncros in the tranny and something let go , we are not sure what went wrong yet but this is why we race the cars to learn how we can make our street cars better. A SPF roadster got 3rd. This car was built to do the one lap of america and is know as the PPG car. How stock is the car............I don't know. I guess it can be registered but it didn't look like any of the SPF cars we have seen at most of the car shows we go to.

Sunday started with a 1hr enduro. After 30 minutes of racing the BDR TD car was running 3rd overall. Unfortinatley our pit stop strategy was not good and we got a 30sec penatly which put us too far back. The 00 car finished 5th overall with a class win. Dennis had elected not to drive his GT40 and was in the SPF Roadster. I am not sure how many laps he did but he had mechanical problems in the first 20 mins and did not finish the race. The gulf colored SPF GT40 went of the track on turn one didn't finish.

Race 2 of the day was the international challenge. This was open to everybody but several of the cars elected not to run. We won this race overall with the gulf colored SPF GT40 in second place. We were entered in a seperate class from the GT40 so we were actually not racing each other.

Race 3 of the day was the 2nd feature race. Because of our poor finish from the day before we started further back than what we would have liked. Dennis was on pole . Dennis won the race with the BDR 00 finishing a close second. Tony did manage to post the quickest lap time of the race.

It was a great weekends racing and I believe both SPF and BDR customers will appreciate seeing the cars running on the track. Our commitment to racing helps us build a better product for the street and it is an extremly good place for us to learn about the products we use. We hope to continue our relationship with HSR so that we can do this again.



Regards Reg Dodd
www.Backdraftracing.com

[kayakjack]

Originally Posted by Backdraft

Hi there,


The second car #6 was built the week prior to the event. It is a prototype of the new "Cup" car we are going to be producing. This car was built using the new Ford 427 crate engine as a power plant with a TKO 600 trans. The 00 car has a Roush built 427RX with a TKO 600 tranny.For anybody who is interested both cars are for sale for $55 000 each. The main difference between the race cars and our road cars are the weight and safety features. Both cars use our standard chassis layout with a full cage added. The chassis come off our standard jigs and the body comes out our standard molds.


A SPF roadster got 3rd. This car was built to do the one lap of america and is know as the PPG car. How stock is the car............I don't know. I guess it can be registered but it didn't look like any of the SPF cars we have seen at most of the car shows we go to.

It was a great weekends racing and I believe both SPF and BDR customers will appreciate seeing the cars running on the track. Our commitment to racing helps us build a better product for the street and it is an extremly good place for us to learn about the products we use. We hope to continue our relationship with HSR so that we can do this again.



Regards Reg Dodd
www.Backdraftracing.com

Reg,

Thank you for adding to this. As a spectator and Superformance owner, your participation along with Olthoff was spectacular. The weekend highlight.

Amazing that the cars I saw could be bought for $55,000. Looking at the Olthoff site, the car they raced is for sale for $50,000...

http://www.olthoffracing.com/

Many of us have more than that invested in our "street" cars.

Anybody at the track last weekend with their eyes opened saw an amazing show. Everyone on this board has their rooting interest. I was cheering on Olthoff. Others had different preferences. All that matters is there was real competition with cars we love. I truly hope this is an effective marketing tool and sells cars for you and the other participants. I hope to see your cars along with other manufacturers at the races.

Jack

[Excaliber]

...full on spec FFR would not have the power level to do this with

Are you suggesting BDR has some kind of exclusive arrangement with Roush wherein SPF, FFR or any other person buying a replica could not install an engine of their choice?

[Bailey]

I believe we have touched on this already...
A "spec legal" Challenge FFR is limited to a steel head EFI 5.0, which is around 225 fwhp, and a solid rear axle.
Now there are many blistering fast Factory Fives out there, BUT they are not "spec legal"

[Excaliber]

Nor is the BDR "spec legal" to run in the NASA FFR Challenge series.

It can run in whatever race or track that allows it to run. Given the same "specifications", virtually none, the same budget and factory preparation it is reasonable to assume any number of replicas could successfully compete with a BDR.

What we continually see here, when it comes to BDR race records, is an "unlimited race version" being compared to either street cars or series spec cars. It is miss leading to do so, in my opinion.

Starting with an FFR Challenge "base" race car for about $14,000 and a budget of $55,000 I say you would build an FFR car that would seriously challenge the BDR car. Personally, I'd like to see the FFR FACTORY, as in the BDR factory, build such a car to prove the point!

[Bailey]

Exactly! Thanks for seeing my point. Another manufacturer or two in the mix could only be a good thing.

[Excaliber]

THAT is the point all right!!! Given virtually no rules, no sanctioning body, no class specifications it is extremely difficult to draw any real world comparisons to other replicas.

Perhaps the NASA unlimited class might be appropriate? Even though it says "Unlimited" there are still plenty or "rules" to determine your actual class within a class. For instance, wings and aero devices will cost you points. Certain engine mods as well. There are also tire restrictions and the list goes on. This is to get to a reasonable base line comparison between cars, to level the playing field if you would, even in the "unlimited" class!!

Again the local Auto Cross here, I witnessed with my own eyes. A private owned and prepared FFR Mark 1, bought used by the current owner, who added IRS and a well built 351 with a carb (NOT a Roush) and DOT tires and monster brakes went FASTER THAN a Lola like this one pictured below: The Lotus 7 with a GM V8 beat both of them. He has substantially less than $55K invested in the FFR!!

[Mark IV]

See this

http://www.olthoffracing.com/

And look at the "PPG Pace Car", that is the car that was at Road Atlanta. It has run the "One Lap" (in fact I helped out a little on the car in 2002 at Watkins Glen when Dennis wa driving)

And I quite agree, it IS good to see two manufacturers and their dealers racing!

[Rwillia4]

Reg,
Great job showing the public what Cobras can do (same to the GT40). It is great that you have the time and devotion to develop the cars. And most importantly put the dream of owning a Cobra into the minds of the little ones at the track. Seems like a win/win for everyone.

Lets get some more factories out there to make the cars better and keep the name Cobra in the race records.

[Cashburn]

Keep in mind these prices are with a little wear on them...

[Backdraft]

Hi there,

Although the rules may appear to be fairly wide open in the HSR group 5 class there is one rule that brings everything back into perspective and it is the tires that the cars need to run on. The cars all need to use a 15 inch period correct race tire. This is a great equaliser and puts a fair amount of emphasis on the handling and driving ability as opposed to the HP of the car.

A good example of this is the red SPF GT40 driven by Dennis as opposed the the gulf colored car. The Gulf car is running a Roush/Yates engine(Nascar style) while Dennis is running a Roush 427SR. I don't know the exact difference but the Gulf car should have at least 200HP more. Yet Dennis was running 3-4 seconds a lap faster.A good driver with a well set up car will be competitve in this class.

It would be great to have more manufacturers running in the same class. When we initially started looking for a place to run our cars we were turned away from the FFR Spec class. There was not even any negotiation with this so we ended up running in the Nassa ST1 class , which put us against Ferrari, Porsche, Dodge Viper etc. Although the car was reasonably competitve in this class it did not showcase our products against our competitors.