Strange Motor Problem, Oil Consumption

[wrogers55]

What are the symptoms of a failing or failed valve stem seal on a small block Ford?

I'm trying to track down a oil usage and periodic but not often "puffing smoke" out of one side only. Then it stops.

Oil consumption is heavy, but no sign of where it is going, not much smoke or oily mess anywhere.....frustrating.

Motor runs great otherwise, no smoke on start up or rev up. No smoke in normal driving. But, do get "smoke" coming out of right side pipe after shut down and it smells different, like wax burning.

Any help or sequence to start looking for the problem will be really be appreciated.

Thanks.

[blykins]

Usually a valve seal will show up at the first startup and occasionally when you let off the gas on a hard shift.

Can you do a compression test/leak down test?

[DAVID GAGNARD]

What Brent said..............

The only other thing that comes to mind right off would be if you have a PCV system in the car and it connects directly to the intake manifold, the PCV valve could be sticking and sucking oil into the intake runner, but that's a long shot.........

Odd that it's coming out of one side and not consistant.....

If you do a compression test, run all cylinders, then come back and give a couple of squirts of motor oil in each cylinder and run again, if the compression goes up, it's the rings, if the compression stays the same (and it's low) then it's the valves.......

David

[Excaliber]

Sometimes it may be as simple as changing the oil! There are various reasons oil can get contaminated, especially problematic is something like running to rich or a float sticking and flooding the engine. That dilutes the oil and can often lead to that "puff of smoke" worry. Perhaps YOUR motor doesn't like a low viscosity synthetic oil either? Some motors just don't, others are OK with it.

In tracking down a smoke issue, I'd be tempted to change or verify my existing oil was good AND I'd run something like 15-40 dinosaur oil just to see if that had any impact. If it gets better but still persists, kick it up a notch, go for a bottle of STP and see if that helps as well. Actually, I run a bottle of STP when I change oil regardless of any problems I may or may not be having (flat tappet cam).

[ratsnst1]

I had the same problem, talk to Bob Gromm racing, he is in san jose, mine was using oil, just like yours blowing smoke just one side, I had the umbrella type seals, which didnt work very well, replaced with the snap fit stle that stay down over the guide, problem solved, talk with Bob he is a nice guy.The first thing he is gong to ask you is what your valve guides clearences are, he runs his on the tight side, some engine guys leave alot of clearence there, and with the umbrella style seal, it wont cut it.

[COBRANIP]

How do your plugs look?

[john chesnut]

I had a high dollar motor that used alot of oil. It ended up having the cheap umbrella valve seals. I switched them out and my oil consumption problem disappeared.

[FUNFER2]

Perform a leak down test on each cylinder. You may have a broken ring.

[FWB]

unfortunately it does sound like a broken ring......

fred

[Zoom This]

I went through everything mentioned in this post, including your syptoms trying to locate my oil consumption problem in my first 418W motor. Replacing the intake manifold gasket helped since it had been installed incorrectly by the original engine builder at House of Cobras in Anaheim. Went from using a quart every 500 miles or less, to a quart every 600-800 miles. Finally had enough with oil smoke out the pipes and rebuilt the engine after 3 years and 11k miles. During tear down, the rings and piston ring lands were shot and not installed correctly during assembly was the major contributor as was the intake gasket mentioned. Best of luck with your motor Wayne.

[mdross1]

You now have plenty to keep you busy,part of the fun of owning these toys.

[wrogers55]

This is a follow up to my oil consumption/burning problem. Still looking for the answer and can really use some help now that I have some good information.

Review: 418 SB, AFR 205, big lumpy cam, dyno 560ish on pump gas. Oil consumption is excessive at a quart every 200-400 miles. But, the only smoke is on the passenger side and that is wispy smoke and more blue than blackash. It smells like candle wax burning and does not come out in "puffs" like a cylinder burning it and spitting it out. After shut off, a trail of blue kind of dense smoke (but very little, like a cigarette maybe) will trail out of the right side pipe and have that same strange smell.

I put a good baffle in the valve cover over the PCV valve and checked it for sucking oil and it is now bone dry, so at least that problem is solved.

My gut tells me the oil is not coming past the rings, but is entering the cylinder from above, mostly and hitting the inside of the hot valves and header causing the "unusual" smoke.

It still starts and runs perfect in all respects, including power.

Plugs are strange as well. The two middle plugs on the passenger side are black and have a fuzzy carbon or oil material on them. All others are tan and perfect. Motor is Mass-Flo injected.

I did a compression check this morning and was a bit relieved. All the cylinders are between 200 and 205 dry, after 5 compression strokes. I didn't put any oil in them yet and recheck and I'm not sure I need to but can use some advice on that. Looks to me like the rings are at least holding compression well. Can that happen and still have a couple of broken oil rings?

I'm still leaning toward valve stem seals, but having those two middle plugs black at the same time is a bit confusing to me.

If it stem seals, any chance of fixing those without pulling the head or heads?

I'm ready to move in any direction, including pulling it apart. Pretty easy in a Backdraft, almost nothing is in the way, bottom or top.

All help will be greatly appreciated!!

[wrogers55]

One more thing to add to my oil/smoke issue.

It seems to have started when I switched to Mobile1. I can't be certain of that, but it's possible that it is related as someone here suggested.

I wonder if anyone else has seen ANYTHING like this related to synthetic oil.

Thanks for the help.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Cheap and easy thing to do first is an oil change, go back to the oil you were using before switching to Mobil 1 and put some miles on it, it could be part of the problem, but I doubt it, but it's an easy,inexpensive thing to check before pulling the engine apart.....

Yes, you can check/change valve seals without pulling the heads, not hard to do.........

David

[YerDugliness]

I made the mistake of using full synthetic oil in a Mitsubishi Eclipse from about 1,000 miles on.....the rings never did seat, it used oil all of it's life.

I've heard that one should have 10,000 miles on a motor before attempting to switch to full synthetic oil for just this reason.

Could be the problem.......but, if so, the issue of the two adjoining cylinders would be a bit baffling, it would seem that it would be all of them.

Keep us posted..

Cheers from Dugly

[Snakebit]

I had oil consumption issues also. Changed out the intake gaskets with SCE 1/8" thick gaskets and used Permatex Hylomar on both sides of the gaskets first problem solved. Checked the plugs and had one oil fould. Replaced the valve seals and now it is tan like the others. Try the simple fixes first before tearing the engine apart to replace rings.

[Mohuska]

I was reading your issues and my jaw dropped. I recently had a new cam installed on my 522 lumpy cam motor. I had never had smoke coming out of the pipes.

I went onto an on ramp the day I picked it up and notices ONLY from the passenger side that I got quite a bit of bluish smoke. Only on the passenger side though.

Took it back to the engine builder and we pulled the plugs. Center two plugs were wet with oil. Outside plugs were fine.

Did a compression test on all cylindefrs. They were 195-205 all the way around.

My builder had changed oils from 10-40 to 20-50.

This is too similar.....Anyone got any ideas???

Thanks,

Mike

[Snakebit]

Most of the time oil consumption on a new motor is caused by a leaking intake manifold gasket or damaged oil seals when they installed the springs. I replaced the intake manifold 3 times using different types of gaskets until it stopped leaking. I used a plain SCE gasket with the hylomar sealer that was made for use on Rolls Royce aircraft engines.. The stuff is great, but no one has ever herd of it. I won't use anything else. I even used it on my valve cover gaskets. You can take them off anf put them back without additional sealer. I tried Nitro seal, printo seal and Victor Reinz they all leaked! The gaskets were hard as bricks with very little compression. The SCE gaskets were softer and would compress a little better making a tighter seal. The only thing I had to do was trim them to fit the intake ports.

[ratsnst1]

Originally Posted by wrogers55

This is a follow up to my oil consumption/burning problem. Still looking for the answer and can really use some help now that I have some good information.

Review: 418 SB, AFR 205, big lumpy cam, dyno 560ish on pump gas. Oil consumption is excessive at a quart every 200-400 miles. But, the only smoke is on the passenger side and that is wispy smoke and more blue than blackash. It smells like candle wax burning and does not come out in "puffs" like a cylinder burning it and spitting it out. After shut off, a trail of blue kind of dense smoke (but very little, like a cigarette maybe) will trail out of the right side pipe and have that same strange smell.

I put a good baffle in the valve cover over the PCV valve and checked it for sucking oil and it is now bone dry, so at least that problem is solved.

My gut tells me the oil is not coming past the rings, but is entering the cylinder from above, mostly and hitting the inside of the hot valves and header causing the "unusual" smoke.

It still starts and runs perfect in all respects, including power.

Plugs are strange as well. The two middle plugs on the passenger side are black and have a fuzzy carbon or oil material on them. All others are tan and perfect. Motor is Mass-Flo injected.

I did a compression check this morning and was a bit relieved. All the cylinders are between 200 and 205 dry, after 5 compression strokes. I didn't put any oil in them yet and recheck and I'm not sure I need to but can use some advice on that. Looks to me like the rings are at least holding compression well. Can that happen and still have a couple of broken oil rings?

I'm still leaning toward valve stem seals, but having those two middle plugs black at the same time is a bit confusing to me.

If it stem seals, any chance of fixing those without pulling the head or heads?

I'm ready to move in any direction, including pulling it apart. Pretty easy in a Backdraft, almost nothing is in the way, bottom or top.

All help will be greatly appreciated!!

change out your valve guide seals its easy, 2 guys and a good commpressor, to keep your valves up.

[undy]

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

I made the mistake of using full synthetic oil in a Mitsubishi Eclipse from about 1,000 miles on.....the rings never did seat, it used oil all of it's life.

I've heard that one should have 10,000 miles on a motor before attempting to switch to full synthetic oil for just this reason.

Could be the problem.......but, if so, the issue of the two adjoining cylinders would be a bit baffling, it would seem that it would be all of them.

Keep us posted..

Cheers from Dugly

That's why many OEM mfrs use it on the first fill-up... More of a wive's tale than anything else...