9" Air Filter Drop Base - How Much Interest?

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Hey Douggie !

Hi, Kev! Good to hear from you again, and good to hear that the track car is still kickin' ass!

If your sprint car can run at high RPM's with a 2" K&N, I'm sure my 302 won't have any problems with one....no need to hang on to that 2 3/4" and I can sure use the clearance when I change out the intake manifold!

Cheers from Dugly

[FUNFER2]

Ya, it's been too long buddy. We need to take a new tour to Hurricane ! lol
I don't think that stock mouse motor would have enough suction to suck up a fly !

You need a monster motor like my 527 side oiler. Ya know, needing a tornado to suck in enough air.

Come up sometine and we'll run a test on the dyno.

[Bernica]

Here are a few pics of what I want to do in a perfect world. Pics are with the K&N "Venturi" baseplate, which would be great. Hey, Bill Wallace, if you're still watching this thread, how did you trim your hood? Also, did you allow for the engine tourque-twist and movement? I really hate to cut my pretty hood up. Paint job on this ride wasn't cheap! The 9" just seems to hit each side by about 1/4" so it kills me!
So does anybody have any suggestions how to open this hood opening with the least possible disturbance to said paint, scoop etc??
I know....probably just go with something shorter, but the motor really wants air!!

[FUNFER2]

Drop the engine 4".

You'll sure choke the cfm with a drop base. Only the top half the filter will be sucking air.

[Bernica]

Agreed. I am a stubborn SOB with a fixation issue once I have a problem to work on. Drives the wifey crazy! I will figure this one out!

[FUNFER2]

Me too buddy. I usually throw the damn thing across them room. Then everybody take a break, and won't come back until they hear me working again, then it's safe. My wife just said, yeah,... right !

[Tim Brewer]

I don't see any way possible a drop base would reduce any ammount of CFM, providing the top of the filter remains at the same height which naturally increases the height of the filter which in turn should increase CFM.

[FUNFER2]

You'll still have some of the filter below the carb seat, thus reducing the cfm.
If you have a tall filter, then you wouldn't need the drop base. Like I mentioned, we tested a lot of filter elements, oval, round, stacked filters ect, and the drop base.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Agreed. I am a stubborn SOB with a fixation issue once I have a problem to work on. Drives the wifey crazy! I will figure this one out!

Let's see if I understand this one.....the K&N 9" hits the inside of the hood scoop by 1/4" on both sides?

I looked at your photo....is that a liner on the underside of the hood? If so, could that be trimmed without having to cut on the actual scoop, itself?

If the 9" is just out of the question without trimming the scoop, would you be interested in retaining the current Stellings 8" air cleaner with an 8" diameter K&N filter element? Here's an 8" X 2 1/2" high one, that might solve the problem (but I hate to see you stuck with that fantastic K&N X-Stream FilterCharger assembly .......no 8" X-Stream filter top, though):

http://www.knfilters.com/search/prod...px?Prod=E-4720

And here's a taller one (2.438") in an 8" OD:

http://www.knfilters.com/search/prod...px?Prod=E-1015

If using the current air cleaner and the 8" K&N is out of the question, well, keep in mind that the original CSX's had a hood scoop attached to the hood with rivets.....it IS an original look and if you have to have surgery on your hood, it's an option.

Lowering the engine that far is going to be a bit of a challenge......

Keep on keepin' on!

Cheers from Dugly

[Bernica]

Thanks Dugly!

Yes, my CSX has a "riveted" hood scoop. Actually, it is held on with tiny stainless button-head allen bolts. So, if I REALLY have to, I can remove it and enlarge the opening. Unless I dare try it from below with a router or something similar

No, I'm not lowering the engine. Funny.

My metal spinner friend is turning the flat base plate today. We'll see how it works out and I'll post a pic.

Cheers!

Michael

[jdean]

This new Airaid 3" filter is tapered a bit. It solved my clearance problem. With a dropped base it would fit a lot of cars.

[FUNFER2]

That's interesting. So you have a width problem in your scoop, how much extra space do you have ?

My problem is towards the front, of the scoop, not width.

[FUNFER2]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Here are a few pics of what I want to do in a perfect world. Pics are with the K&N "Venturi" baseplate, which would be great. Hey, Bill Wallace, if you're still watching this thread, how did you trim your hood? Also, did you allow for the engine tourque-twist and movement? I really hate to cut my pretty hood up. Paint job on this ride wasn't cheap! The 9" just seems to hit each side by about 1/4" so it kills me!
So does anybody have any suggestions how to open this hood opening with the least possible disturbance to said paint, scoop etc??
I know....probably just go with something shorter, but the motor really wants air!!

The other question is, the turkey pan was made so the filter would sit down in the pan, so the air directed to the carb from the hood scoop is sealed, thus giving the most cold air possible. To me, this renders the pan useless.

But, next to a dual quad, I really like the looks of the turkey pan, just awesome. I can't utilize one because it hits the front,... of my hood scoop. Other wise, I would have it. With this CRAP,...... life's a big turd !

[FUNFER2]

ugly,..........I mean Dugly,

You have a PM.
Kev

[jdean]

Well the Airaid is definitely NOT a solution if you want to keep a turkey pan. It is a 14" base and tapers to about 10" at the top. The main point of this one is it will move a lot of air and not serve as a restriction to breathing on a fairly healthy engine.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

That's interesting. So you have a width problem in your scoop, how much extra space do you have ?

My problem is towards the front, of the scoop, not width.

I have space on the sides of the scoop and plenty in the fron to make cuts if I need to(see pics above). If I need to do surgery on the hood, I think I have room. As stated above, the whole idea is trying to keep everyting in the turkey pan.
I'll figure this out.
Never quit, never surrender.....

[Bobcat]

jdean ... just talked to Airaid about the filter you used and they made me a little uneasy as they told me they couldn`t give me any cfm ratings and it was designed for looks rather than performance . Having said that , it may still be an option for me as my underhood clearance on my ERA is very limited on what I can use .
Do you have any data showing cfm ... or direct comparisons of how your engine ran before and after ??
Since I`m using a drop base unit , this may still be a better option for my engine ... 482 cubic inch , single 4 bbl. Just looking for more info/practical experience .

Thanks ,
Bob

[jdean]

Dont have any before and after dyno comparisons etc. It is basically a 14" base with 3" cotton gauze element similar to K&N material. I am sure Airaid will also tell you they should flow as well as K&N. Here are some comparisons:

K&N E-1650 14x3 Cotton 835 CFM 97.1% 126
AIS Cotton AF3C 14x3 Cotton 830 CFM 96.5% 121
AIS Cotton AF3C-2 14x3 Cotton/Synt 830 CFM 96.5% 130
FRAM FRM4 14x3 Paper 791 CFM 91.9% 128
Moroso 97080 14x3 Paper 776 CFM 90.2% 131
Amsoil 52 14x3 Foam 774 CFM 90% 140

So I would believe it flows around 800CFM since the taper reduces the total surface area a bit, but not much since the filter area is wider than 3" since it slopes inward, still keeping the 3" height from base to top. Inside it has 4 vertical vanes to stabilize and direct the incoming air. This is important to reduce turbulence and get maximum flow. To get this type of flow under a Cobra hood is pretty good.

Anyway, this is the only one I could find that flows well and would clear, and that was with trimming the base. I am pleased with the quality of the Airaids.

[YerDugliness]

Interesting data, jdean!

I wonder if you could tell us what the other numbers indicate--is the % figure the filtration rate (my guess), no idea what the number after the % sign is, perhaps square inches of filter area (again, my guess)?

I drove a '65 GTO for a while, opened up the hood scoop and used an aftermarket air filter that used foam at the top of the "funnel", or venturi, shaped base. I was not happy with the filtration and feared that a backfire would start a fire in the engine compartment. I don't know that I felt any positive difference in the performance of the car, but it didn't seem any slower, either.

One thing is sure, with my stock-block 302/5.0 HO, I won't need to worry about having enough airlfow with a 9" X 2" or 2 1/4" K&N. That relieves my concern about going to a shorter filter!

I'd bet there is HP to be found with experimentation regarding the structures inside the air cleaner assembly, such as the "vanes" you mentioned in the Airaid. I could see a "funnel" shaped insert (for lack of a better term) inside the air cleaner that would force the air to make the 90* turn into the carb's venturis a bit less turbulent....much like the swirl patterns on some intake valves increase the flow rate.

Interesting.....thanks!

Cheers from Dugly

[jdean]

Dugly,

Here is where the data came from....great article on filters.

http://www.reklessracing.net/forums/...p?showtopic=18