Oil type/use question

mkassab · #1 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 05:53 PM

I already own a lot of sync oil… 2 types…

- Castrol Syntec 5W-50

- Red Line 0W-40

For the first several hundred miles, I’m using the Gibbs oil and some 10w-40 oil with Red Line break in additive. Then I’ll drain, hook up my canton oil/filter/accu system and use Shell Rotella (about 15 quarts). Will run that ~12 months.

1. Is there any issue with either of these sync oils for my 427 sbf engine? I’d plan to wait to next year to use. I could wait longer.

2. Should I mix the two sync's above

3. Should I mix Shell Rotella with any of above.

4. If yes to mix… maybe 50-50?

Your advice needed. I don’t want to waste the sync oil I have. I sold a Porsche that used both.

Thanks Mark

Got the Bug · #2 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 06:09 PM

I'm no expert, but I wouldn't make a habit of blending different oil types. Most builders recommend that you run a motor for 3k miles on dyno oil before running a synthetic.

Who built your engine? What do they recommend?

Bob In Ct · #3 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 07:15 PM

Don't mix different brands, the additive packages may not get along well.

Bob

vector1 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-19-2010, 04:47 AM

i would use mobil 1 delvac1300 instead of the shell rotella and if you have the flat tappet setup put in the break-in additive. i wouldn't be in a hurry to add the syn oil, maybe use it in something else if i was happy with the oil pressure.

blykins · #5 (**permalink**) 10-19-2010, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

Who built your engine? What do they recommend?

That would be me....I guess he couldn't get a hold of me last night.

Mark, I'd rather you not use synthetic oil at all in this engine. I like the higher viscosity/higher oil pressure.

As for mixing, you can run through the rest of your Joe Gibbs break-in oil, and from there on out you can use the Rotella or another similar brand of non-synthetic with the same viscosity.

mdross1 · #6 (**permalink**) 10-19-2010, 05:47 AM

Most all oil Co say you can mix oils.I for one see no reason to unless have no choice.Why would you feel the need to? Personally have one brand am loyal to Amsoil.Been using all their products for years.

blykins · #7 (**permalink**) 10-19-2010, 06:02 AM

I don't see the need to mix the Redline breakin, with the 10W40, with the Joe Gibbs.

With 15+ pulls on the pump, it's certainly broken in at this point...but I think in his situation, he had about 4 quarts of Joe Gibbs leftover from the dyno and he wanted to just go ahead and use the rest of it. I think it would be perfectly fine to go ahead and run that with the Rotella he has...then just switch to all non-synthetic on the next oil change.

madmaxx · #8 (**permalink**) 10-19-2010, 07:09 AM

How do you guys feel about Mobile 1 15W50 it has the high zinc and phosphorous and only $24 at walmart for the 5 quart jug. My only concern is if it would be to viscous.

JBCOBRA · #9 (**permalink**) 10-19-2010, 07:39 AM

I have about 15k on my car. Builder prefers dino oil. He recommended good old Valvoline VR1 20-50. Works like a champ in my car. However, if your builder recommends a different weight use that weight oil. The VR1 is relatively cheap and readily available.
Plus, everyone here is so diligent about oil changes, the oil most likely never gets very old anyway.

Bob In Ct · #10 (**permalink**) 10-19-2010, 08:05 AM

I just got off the phone with Mobil (1-800-askmobil) and they tell me their 15W-50 Mobil1 has 1,200 PPM ZDDP. Their 5W-30 has 800 PPM. Their 5W-40 Turbo Diesel oil has 1,100 to 1,200 PPM ZDDP. Keep in mind that all Redline street oils have at least 1,200 PPM ZDDP right out of the bottle.

I'm using Redline 5W-30 (9 quarts) with 4 ounces of their ZDDP additive which gets me to almost 1,500 PPM ZDDP.

zrayr · #11 (**permalink**) 10-20-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blykins

".............Mark, I'd rather you not use synthetic oil at all in this engine. I like the higher viscosity/higher oil pressure................"

I use Mobil 1 15w-50 synthetic oil & couldn't ask for more oil pressure. Ignoring the significant advances in oil technology by advising against synthetic oils borders on willful ignorance.

Here's my oil pressure @ 75- 105 degrees F. air temp. with a 180 degree thermostat

cold engine:

pressure @ idle: 82 psi

hot engine:

idle (800 rpm) ...... 35 psi
1500 rpm ..............70 psi
2000 rpm ..............72 psi
2500 rpm ..............75 psi
3000 rpm ............. 80 psi
3500 rpm ............. 82 psi
4000 rpm ............ 85 psi
5000 rpm ............ 85 psi
6000 rpm ............ 85 psi
6500 rpm ............ 85 psi

Z.

blykins · #12 (**permalink**) 10-20-2010, 05:57 PM

If you noticed his first post, you'll see that he was dealing with 5W and 0W oil...most certainly, he'd have higher oil pressures with a 15W-50 synthetic oil in comparison to those. However, he had a surplus of oil that he was wanting to use.

Regardless, I recommend customers to use the good ole fashioned non-synthetic in my engines.

Got the Bug · #13 (**permalink**) 10-20-2010, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blykins

If you noticed his first post, you'll see that he was dealing with 5W and 0W oil...most certainly, he'd have higher oil pressures with a 15W-50 synthetic oil in comparison to those. However, he had a surplus of oil that he was wanting to use.

Regardless, I recommend customers to use the good ole fashioned non-synthetic in my engines.

I'm with you. Unless the manufacturer specifically calls out synthetic (i.e. My wife's MBZ), I'm going to stick with non synthetic for my Roush.

mkassab · #14 (**permalink**) 10-21-2010, 05:40 AM

Good opinions by all, and thanks for the feedback.

I will use dino oil for these key reasons: 1. I'll only put 1 or 2k miles per year, 2. I'll change oil annually in the fall, 3. for a few k miles and higher cost of sync oil it just makes NO sense to use sync oil (with very little or no benefit).

The only reason I started this thread was I had sync oil from a previous car.

thanks all again.... Mark

madmaxx · #15 (**permalink**) 10-21-2010, 11:09 AM

The advantage to synthetic is cold starts, where all the wear takes place. $50 for synthetic at Walmart (Mobil 1 5quart jug is $24.50) compared to $30 (Valvoline $15.00 for 5 quart jug) for non sythetic at walmart. My oil changes require 10 quarts. For $20.00 I will splurge on Synthetic.

In my opinion the optimuim oil is Mobil 1 0W40, followed by Mobil 1 10W40 high mileage for Hot climates as in Texas.

15W50 is way to heavy. I put some in and drained it out 5 miles later when the oil gauge was pegged at 60 psig and ambient outside temp was 90F. The last thing I want is the oil pump bypassing and the second to last thing I want is the oil filter bypassing.

I found an interesting study, most oil filters at 6600 rpm and 10W30 have a pressure drop of 15 psig across them at 100C oil temp. Most oil filter bypass at 9-11 psig. The Ford Racing FL-1HP bypasses at 22 psig. So in summary most stock filters are not filtering your oil at high rpms. Probably not a big deal but something to consider.

RodKnock · #16 (**permalink**) 10-21-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zrayr

Ignoring the significant advances in oil technology by advising against synthetic oils borders on willful ignorance.

Oye vey. This is why I don't like oil threads. Folks quote studies, with elaborate statistical evidence, but don't know who paid for them or if the people are even qualified to perform a study. Who knows, maybe they're biased, maybe they're not. Maybe they're right, maybe they're not.

Then folks go ahead and call me and others names, like "bordering ignorant", because we prefer dino oil in our engines or even, for heaven's sake, 15W-50 grade dino oil.

The Buddha said (paraphrasing) "Don't believe everything you read."

JBCOBRA · #17 (**permalink**) 10-21-2010, 12:34 PM

[quote=madmaxx;1085203]The advantage to synthetic is cold starts, where all the wear takes place.
This is just a thought, but when I start my car when it has been sitting or is cold.
Firstly I know the engine won't start if I don't pump the gas pedal a couple times.
So I intentional do not pump the gas at first. I turn the starter until I see a little oil pressure on the guage, Then pump the gas and start the engine.
Or, if you have an electric fuel pump, don't turn it on at first. Turn the starter until you see some pressure then turn on the fuel pump.
How does that sound?

madmaxx · #18 (**permalink**) 10-21-2010, 01:05 PM

Shoot as soon as I turn my key the oil pressure is there, within 1 revolustion of the engine. From my miniscule understanding of oil, synthetics thin easier than mineral base when cold. During startup their viscosity is lower, which flows easier to engine parts. Synthetics do not need the same amount of polymers to acheive the same viscosity index, when you hammer your engine and your piston skirt is flying around I would rather have oil between the piston and cylinder than polymers.

JBCOBRA · #19 (**permalink**) 10-21-2010, 01:11 PM

Basically, that is what I am doing. I don't want to let the engine fire until I see pressure. The damage occurs if it fires before there is pressure.

Bxx1 · #20 (**permalink**) 10-21-2010, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob In Ct

I just got off the phone with Mobil (1-800-askmobil) and they tell me their 15W-50 Mobil1 has 1,200 PPM ZDDP. Their 5W-30 has 800 PPM. Their 5W-40 Turbo Diesel oil has 1,100 to 1,200 PPM ZDDP. Keep in mind that all Redline street oils have at least 1,200 PPM ZDDP right out of the bottle.

I'm using Redline 5W-30 (9 quarts) with 4 ounces of their ZDDP additive which gets me to almost 1,500 PPM ZDDP.

I would like to know where the source for info for the Redline ZDDP content. Thanks,
Ron