Crate engines to assemble yourself

[Keithc8]

Wanted to see if anyone thought that they might be interested in doing all of their own assembly work on their engine. I have thought of selling complete engines in pieces with all of the machine work done and you assemble your self. Just wanted to get a feel for this ideal. This way you get all of the right parts and machine work done and you just have to check clearances and assemble. One would have to remember that all clearances would have to be checked just like we do when we assemble. Might have to exchange bearings if clearances are not what you want. We do not make the bearings or package them so all of this stuff has to be checked. Just something I wanted to see if their was any interest in.

Thanks, Keith

[mdross1]

The very reason why I use local machinists.Have always assembled my own motors just to know the clearances are what they are supposed to be.Always make it clear so there are no surprizes when taking parts to the shops.

[Silverback51]

It could be risky to your reputation.

You will have some people buying them that way to save a few bucks. They will buy a set of bearings and not bother with checking the clearances and then when they have a problem, they will be on the internet blaming you.

Not really sure it would be worth it in my opinion.

[blykins]

It's the same with a short block too. I've thought about selling short blocks only, but sure as the world, some guy would slap a set of heads on, not check piston to valve clearances, then badmouth me.

The internet is a killer for reputations.....but it's also good advertising.

[madmaxx]

Sounds good, but I see alot more risk than reward for you. I really like the idea but unless the owner is doing for the love of it, there is no way he can do it as cheap as he can pay you to do it. I guess you would supply all the torque values, recommended clearances. Hint, get ready to live on your telephone answering alot of questions.

[vector1]

i think it is a good idea, nobody else doing it anyway. send out a spec sheet with the parts showing all the measurements. i've been through two machine shops trying to get stuff done correctly, getting it done at one good shop would be worth the time & money imo.

[Excaliber]

Hmmmm, interesting concept. It's always problematic finding a machine shop that I like to work with. One that will do it to my specs, or specs we talk about and agree on. I would be comfortable with a deal like this, confident that the machine work was correct. Some assembly required! I prefer to do my own assembly. But I don't know how big that market might be.

There is a risk alright, people are much harder to dial in than engine parts.

[BBQCYCLEWERKES]

I also agree it is a good idea. My brother & I have done numerous ground up restorations on our numbers matching Mopar musclecars. We always do the assembly of the motors. Maybe just for peace of mind knowing all the clearences are just the way we want them. Sounds like a great idea, but I'm afraid you could be opening up a real can of worms also. Just my 2 cents though.

[Don]

Keith, the risk is not knowing the expertise of the individuals assembling the engine, either themselves or hiring someone local or just friends. Granted, there will always be those that have the skills, but no way to differentiate.

If there are problems, " must be the parts " , never the build, might be the explanation and then your name is associated with the failures. Maintaining 100% control of parts and assembly eliminates the possibility. The question will be are the increased sales worth the risk ?

[Wbulk]

Absolutely agree. If they don't know how to check clearances they shouldn't be trying it anyway. There are plenty of companies that sell kits and that's really what they would be. Most guys that know how to build engines would never pay someone to do it anyway. You would pick up the market of those that want your experience of getting the right parts that work together. That experience is valuable.

[Excaliber]

So how did this type of marketing work out for companies like "Heath Kit"? Where you assemble the components to make the "thing" you ordered.

[madmaxx]

What about if a component fails due to a manufactureing defect. Look at all the problems you have run into over the years and many of your customers will experience the same thing. One thing is for sure the BLAME will always be on you. It is not worth it. Heck you have always offered that option, if someone calls asking for parts you sell them.

[DrivinWest]

I would buy one in a heartbeat if it came with explicit assembly instructions. DIY is a huge part of this hobby, yet local machine shops can be a big pain.

[slider701]

If you were going to sell a small block Chevy kit I think you would be OK because most kids out of high school auto shop can assemble one half blind folded and not worry about it blowing up. Selling a FE kit to some of these folks who cannot figure out which way to hit their spinners to get their wheels off.......I would be scared about that.

How about this idea: What about selling an "Engine Assembly Experience", similar to what you can do when you buy a new Corvette and can work with the guys who hand assemble the Vette engines. Offer guys the opportunity to travel to your shop for 4-5 days and work hand in hand with you assembling their engines under the guidance of your master engine tech leadership. I'm sure you could get them to help with grunt work like cleaning/prepping parts, cleaning the shop, and other tasks to help offset the "pain in the ass" factor of dealing with some customers.

The plus side is it would be an eye opener for some customers who complain about how much something costs once they see the amount of time you invest into an engine, along with your capital investment in tools and equipment.

I know that if I ever win the lottery and can afford a Kirkham with a KC all aluminum FE I'll be negotiating a deal with you and David to allow me to be there every step of the way in the build process, no matter what the cost would be (I guess that's just the mechanical engineer in me).

[Keithc8]

These are all valid points. We do sell all of the parts anyway if one wants to do their own deal. We are one of the few shops that let the customers come and see their engines dyno tested if they want.
Maybe we should offer a option to pay ectra and come see your engine built or be a part of it and learn as we do it. Just trying to test some new ideals. A lot of people think they can assemble an engine untill they run into one little problem or something that does not fit right that has to be modified. This is why it is custom engine building.
The open house thing was something else that I thought might give some customer an ideal of what goes into designing, machining, testing and doing an engine complete.
Let me know if you guys have any ideals that you think would be a good deal for everybody or that a group might be interested in. I wanted to try to do something like the Kirkham's do with their open house to display some new parts and share sone knowledge if anyone would come.

Thanks, Keith Craft

[PoppyMod]

Keith,


What would make someone go for the opportunity? The cost savings in labor? Sheer love of hands-on experience?
Would there be different levels of assembly offered? Turn-key, short block, something in between?
I like the concept, generally. I am a hands-on type with the skills, knowledge, and tools to blue-print assemble a FORD engine. And yes, I was a "Heath kit" type, back in the day.
I think the DIY kits would be sold on a case by case basis and allow for customization.
I signed disclaimer regarding the "assembly" would be a necessity, though.
Happy Motoring!

[mdross1]

The way I see it is as long as the potential customer is aware of the clearances and what needs checking,and is capable why not.No doubt there are those out there that are always looking for someone to blame for their shortcomings,and will spoil things for the rest of us.That's life and some of the many hassles that go along with it.Of course it is because of those complainers that stopped me forever doing work for others.

[undy]

Too much risk to damage a spotless reputation. I did buy my 482" short block from Keith and finish building it from remaining components I already had, but ... there is no way to validate the end user's/machine shop's skills and the quality of the final product.

That being said, if my name was KC, I would not venture into that market UNLESS I was hurting for business OR trying desperately to expand the business.

As I side note... wasn't it just a few months ago that Keith was fed up with the business and contemplating selling it??? WOW, what dramatic a turn-around. I guess the recent SOHC success has sparked an automotive resurgence.

[Excaliber]

A business doesn't have to be desperate to look at any and all ways to grow or enhance the customer experience. It's just good business to ALWAYS be looking for a new approach. Throwing out ideas, talking about "what if's", it should be an on-going process.

When I had a business almost everyday I'd find myself thinking about advertising, expansion, having another "Blow Out" sale, a new source of parts, buying bigger volume, etc. It never ends.

...and yeah, thinking about selling it, retiring, the long hours. Eventually, I did in fact throw in the towel.

[Wbulk]

It would be interesting to know how many that have a lot of experience building engines are for it, vs. those that have never built an engine are against it. The market is with those that have the skills and experience.
Regardless, I would like to see a list of parts "kits" for various engines and rpm ranges that could be purchased. It could also state expected HP and torque for the various rpm range uses.