New EZ EFI Stack 482FE build results

[Keithc8]

We just completed a 482C.I. for a customer with stack injection that we used the new Fast EZ EFI set up on. We have used this on the small block stack injection stuff with great succes. The great thing about this set up is that it is self tuning and has worked great on other stuff so far. Can drive the car from 100 feet above sea level to 8000 feet above sea level with no laptop tuning or anything.
Working with Fast we had to build a plenum box for the vacuum with lines from each runner to the box. The system uses the vacuum to tell how much load is on the engine. It also uses the barometer, air temp, water temp and O2 sensor to help tune as well. It takes a little run time for the box to start learning. You can preset the air fuel that you are shooting for in the box and then it will work and self tune to get there. We played with the fuel pressure some as well.
The engine was a 482C.I. FE built with a 1964 Ford center oiler block that we drilled for lifter oiling since we were going to run a hydraulic roller. About 10 to 1 compression with our stage 2 heads. The engine made 617 ft/lbs of torque at 4300 rpms and 621 HP at 5700 rpms. The engine has a very nice flat torque curve.
The unit will keep tuning after it is installed in the car and adjust for your exhaust and what ever air cleaner system that you run. We have been looking for something that would self tune with a stack injection set up so that you do not have to get the laptop out to tune it. I think this is going to be a nice set up for future builds.
The complete small block set up runs 5500.00 and the FE set up runs about 6500.00 because we have to build the plenum box and run the lines plus there is a little extra cost to instaliing it on an engine and dyno testing it because it is a little more work than the carburetor set up. The small block has a plenum built intio the intake. Next up is the 482C.I. all aluminum polished 427 SOHC with stack fuel injection. Stay tuned hope to have information on it in a few weeks.

Thanks, Keith Craft

[philminotti]

Keith-

Good to hear about the FAST system. I've been thinking of switching.

I have a question for you. I have one of your hydraulic rollers in my 482: 248/252, .633 lift, installed with an ICL of 108*. I have a mass-flo port fuel injection. At 1000 rpm with no load, I see 6-8 mm Hg manifold vacuum. At 1200 rpm no load, I see 15 mm. Varying the ignition timing doesn't significantly alter this. I've had the intake on and off several times for other reasons, with no change in vacuum after reinstall. I threw an old Holley carb on it, no change.

Any thoughts on this vacuum? Secondly, will the FAST system have a problem with this level of vacuum? I've been pretty unhappy with my Mass-Flo system.

Thanks.
phil

[FWB]

keith,
what piece of equipment did you use in your shop to drill out the oil galleys in the center oiler? 2 feet length of cut?

just curious......


Fred B.

[Keithc8]

Well I think that you would need a smaller camshaft for the Mass Flow possibly even though they say that is not the case. I will check on the lower vacuum to see what the guys at Fast think on this deal. I have used the Mass Flow set up myself but feel that it is limited on the higher HP stuff. I know some people go into the computer on it and mess with it by doing a chip or using a programmer.
On the block we use our RMC CNC block machine. We have a program with locations in it that we set up on to do this. Have to drill from each end and meet in the middle so it has to be pretty accurate. We also have to drill the connectioning galleys from the valley down as well and then tap all holes for pipe plugs. We charge about 400.00 to do it to a block for someone.

Thanks, Keith

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by Keithc8

You can preset the air fuel that you are shooting for in the box and then it will work and self tune to get there. We played with the fuel pressure some as well.
Thanks, Keith Craft

I am using an older Haltech system. It works well, but it's strictly open loop for me.

Do you set a specific AFR in each cell? Or do you specify a range?

Originally Posted by philminotti

Secondly, will the FAST system have a problem with this level of vacuum? phil

I have the same question; my engine gets a very low vacuum signal. Does itt have to have a solid vacuum signal? Or can it run on TPS and RPM only?

[Tony Ripepi]

Hi Keith,

Any pics of the 482 with the stacks?

TR

[lovehamr]

Keith, I'd like to see pics as well because this;

Originally Posted by Keithc8

Working with Fast we had to build a plenum box for the vacuum with lines from each runner to the box.

sounds like it would look like ****e.

[Keithc8]

You might go to the Fast website and see what you can find on some of those questions. It is a closed loop system and self tuning once the A/F is set. There are some other items that you can set as well. Pretty easy to set up and use.
Shelly is working on some pictures for me at the moment. May do a photo bucket.

Thanks, Keith

[mdross1]

If the FAST system works as good as the S&S IST system it will be a homerun.My 124" Harleys has been a pure joy with this setup.The best thing is you can play with parts and the computer does the rest.I'm an old school kind of guy but this is the cats!!!!!You have peaked my interest to do something with my 460"Thanks will look into it next season have a new bike to play with this season.

[bobcowan]

I was reading some EFI system descriptions. FAST looks good, but I couldn' find the direct answer to my question. They say it will run just about any engine combo you could build, including two power adders. So it's probably able to handle 5mm/hg.

I was also reading about the Big Stuff 3; that system has been gaining a good reputation in the last couple of years. It was interesting to see that this system can incorporate the GM flex-fuel sensor, and allow the computer to adjust for the varying quality and mixtures of e-85.

I would really like to use e-85 at the track, it sure would save me some money. I tried it last month, but my computer can't handle it.

[twobjshelbys]

Pictures? We need pictures.

In the middle days of my struggle with the Accel DFI system on my Roush I'd considered switching to the FAST system but noone seemed to think it wouldn't have its own set of problems. Glad to hear it is working out.

Have you had it above 8000'? That's just the beginnings here. Several of the passes peak at a little over 10000' and Trail Ridge (a frequent summer drive) is 12000. I have to admit I haven't tried the Cobra over Trail Ridge due to construction but maybe this summer.

[COBRAMAN 484]

Keith, I just installed a new 482 using your 242/248 cam, lifters and pistons. The motor is running but I wont be able to drive it for another month (to much snow). I have been running a TWM 50mm setup with a Haltech F9A running of off the TPS for about twelve years. I've been thinking about a new system for the last few years. Just haven't been able to decide on which one. The Fast EZ EFI sounds interesting, my question is where do you put the plenum box, does the manifold have to be removed and machined or drilled and tapped and what would be the cost for a plenum. Also how does the system run from 0-100' my summer house is about 8' above sea level and has been known to be a few feet under sea level at certain times. Thank You.

Peter

[Keithc8]

The small block engines that we have this set up on are working fine at any altitude. The intake would have to be removed and the box built and installed on it and the lines ran from each runner to the box. I will have to do some checking to see what that would run. On this build the box is on the top of the manifold but I also thought about a way to install the box and lines under the manifold with the fittings at the back for IAC and map.
We have used the regular Fast stuff for years but it only correct about 25 percent up or down from the model in the computer. It also has to be tuned with a lap top and will not adjust as well as this new stuff they have out. I think there is a place for both depending on if it is a street engine or pure race. I know that the Big Stuff 3 works very well on a lot of the race engines we have out there with blowers and turbos. I do not how it works on street engines.
What we have been looking for is something that is easy to hook up and then self learns and tunes it self. Something that would be very nice and easy for street engines. This has not been as big a problem with a throttle body but with the stacks it has been harder to do. I think this deal is going to work pretty well.

Thanks, Keith

[kobrabytes]

Keith

My fast/twm system has been fine sine I moved to alpha n. Granted I spent a bunch of time tuning. In Utah here I've had it from 4000 ft up to 10,700 and it seems to deal well with the change quite well.

Still love the motor!

Len

[RICK LAKE]

Bobcowan Bob, Len has the right idea on running a FAST or SpeedPro setup. I ran the other way with using a map sensor on the 452 motor with a .500" lift camshaft. Vacuum was good in the 12-15hg range. The computor just didn't respond well with the map sensor. Changed over to the Alpha "N" way and now the system uses the throttle position sensor for control. Map sensor is just along for the ride. Also need to watch running LOW OHM injectors with a Fast or Speed Pro system. 72 pounds and up are hard on the quad drivers in the unit. They also cause extra heat in the ECU. 50-55 are about the safe limit. If you over build a fuel system you should not have any problems. You want the duty cycles of the injectors to stay under 80%. My 482 motor with 50 pound injectors is only at 62% aT 6,000 RPMS. I have (2) fuel pumps of 255 litre in my gas tank and (2) supply lines of 1/2" to the injector rail with a 3/8" return line. Only down side I see is the fuel gets warm on long runs. 50 pound injectors are good for about 800hp depending on fuel pressure and duty cycle of injectors. They will be in the 90% range. I am going with the TWM 58mm on next motor. I do think that runing a weber base camshaft design may have a better mid range power output than other camshafts. I haven't tryed the lastest rooler from KCR yet, .622" like Phils. Rick L. Ps Bob e-85 gas is OK but IMO and the trouble we are starting to see is you need an alchole carb to not have problems. The E-85 is eating any rubber line that doesn't have a plastice inner linner. We see little black particals in the carbs,float bowls, and jets that get through the filters of 20mm. I don't feel the same power either, just cleaner air out the tail pipe. We have people come in off the road that in winter months have lost between 2-6 mpg of gas mileage. It may ot be oxygen fuel any more but not the good stuff either, just cleaner. To bad the REST of the world is not doing this. ONLY here and charging bigtime for it. Rick

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by Keithc8

The intake would have to be removed and the box built and installed on it and the lines ran from each runner to the box. I will have to do some checking to see what that would run.

This is the bottom of my 351W manifold. Seemed to work just fine for a vacuum signal. But, as my engine slowly became more radical, there isn't enough vacuum signal to speak of. So it's kind of pointless.

Originally Posted by kobrabytes

Keith

My fast/twm system has been fine sine I moved to alpha n. Granted I spent a bunch of time tuning. In Utah here I've had it from 4000 ft up to 10,700 and it seems to deal well with the change quite well.

Still love the motor!

Len

I live at about 6,400' ASL. We often drive over 11,000 AND 12,000' passes. At high altitude, you can tell the engine is losing power. But it runs just as smooth as can be. Last year we raced in Tulsa, 850' ASL. We didn't have to change anything, the computer did it all. We just rolled off the trailer and onto the track. I love EFI!

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

. Ps Bob e-85 gas is OK but IMO and the trouble we are starting to see is you need an alchole carb to not have problems. Rick

I wanted to use e-85 at the track only. You definatly use more fuel. But it's 100-104 octane, runs really coole to prevent detonation, and only $2.65 a gallon. 110 octane leaded race fuel is nearly $10 a gallon now.

[Keithc8]

http://s827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/keithcraft8c/

[Tony Ripepi]

Looks great Keith.....

Looks like pushing the stick at 4700 RPM will do it every time.

Tony R.

[Dimis]

A month in...
Do we have any further feedback with how this engine package is going?

Pros & Cons compared to say a 2x4 carburetor set up?

Many Thanks,

[Keithc8]

The engine that we did this on is being installed in the car at this moment. Do not know when they will have running. Will let everyone know when they have it up and going but if it works as well as the small block stuff should be great.

Thanks, Keith