Cobra Front to rear weight balance

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Nor should you. Your apology over your engine choice was more than enough for even the most rabid carnivores on this forum. I think we should just forget the whole thing and ignore them all together. How does that sound?

Seems to me that you need to call your nurse for your medications. Your mind it playing tricks on you again.

And with that, I'm done whoring up this thread with you. Try your mindless battle with someone you can beat.

And go ahead, you can have the last word.

[sspano01]

i wish i ran the autocross like that! i
i think i need alot more practice before my engine becomes the limiting factor :P

[Silverback51]

I have said many times before, and I will say it again.

The throttle is a rheostat, not an on/off switch.

To me the greatest and most exhilarating thing is to be able to press down on that throttle pedal and know that I’m right on the limit. Be it in a corner or on a straight it’s just a terrific feeling.

So personally I don’t feel I can have too much horsepower. You just need to learn to use the maximum that you can for the moment.

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

I have said many times before, and I will say it again.

The throttle is a rheostat, not an on/off switch.

To me the greatest and most exhilarating thing is to be able to press down on that throttle pedal and know that I’m right on the limit. Be it in a corner or on a straight it’s just a terrific feeling.

So personally I don’t feel I can have too much horsepower. You just need to learn to use the maximum that you can for the moment.

Was going to jump back in say about the same thing.I have what I want in my car because at the time was the best way to go for the budget I had.Driving these things to the limit,mine and the cars,is the biggest part of the allure,the other is it's looks and reputation.

[vector1]

ditto the on off switch. i learned racing karts that instead of mashing the accelerator to ease into it as early as possible through the turn. reduced times were a result. was one of the harder things to learn, but a person has the potential to learn a lot tearing other peoples' stuff up, and rear tire spin was not fast either

[Dominik]

One day I took my all-aluminium 496 out and replaced it with a cast iron 454 (Yes, Chevy). I had to raise the suspension front & rear to equal amounts to compensate.

My finding is: 50/50 either way. The "heavy" front end and pushing (understeer) is a myth. Probably tire related.

Just weigh an AUDI A6 front vs rear. It's probably 70/30 (or a Cadillac). Any eco-box (German Corsa-C, total weight 2.200lbs) weighs more in the front than a decent Cobra!

[Jerry Clayton]

My block weighs 99lbs, crankshaft 42lbs------

[Avmaviator]

F-R balance is one thing but for RR and those kind of events relying on cornering, the vertical location of this weight has a big impact.
Do sbf have their weight lower then the bb? Maybe that is one reason for that argument.

I don't know the answer to that question btw... Anybody? Oh and this is coming from someone with a bb Patrick, so you know where my heart is

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Avmaviator

Anybody? Oh and this is coming from someone with a bb Patrick, so you know where my heart is

And a pretty good question it is. 100 lbs. bolted to the top of one of my roll bars would seemingly have a different impact than an additional 100 lbs directly on the frame. It's that whole "torque" thing....

[elmariachi]

Sorry in advance for answering the OP's question....

My car has a cast iron 427FE with iron heads, dual quads, TKO 600, Ford 9" rear. Balance is 51 front 49 rear with me in it and a 1/2 tank gas.

And I agree with Silverback's comment about "being right on the edge."

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Sorry in advance for answering the OP's question....

My car has a cast iron 427FE with iron heads, dual quads, TKO 600, Ford 9" rear. Balance is 51 front 49 rear with me in it and a 1/2 tank gas.

You need to put on a few lbs then. Think about hitting Burger King tonight for a Triple Whopper with cheese.

[ERA Chas]

Subtle things make a difference in weight and mass location. All aluminum engines vs. all iron or iron/ally combinations. My aluminum rad is 1/2 the weight of my old copper brass. Battery location-trunk or footbox?
Every single one of our cars is unique in the equipment content and the location of key items. 350 wheel HP is more than adequate for a serious race car so it's not necessarily the 600 HP gang that wins hands down.
So a blanket statement like SB's are better roadracers than BB's is BS. It's the setup of each individual car that makes one or the other produce better lap times. And that's omitting the driver skill factor.
Here's what it would take to find merit in a SB vs. BB racing evaluation-in my opinion.
Two identical rollers must be sourced from a manufacturer.
For the sake of discussion, ERA or KMP. Both chassis are available to carry SB's and BB's. Each chassis should get one type of engine-an FE and a 9.5 deck Windsor. (An 8.2 deck would make the weight difference greater but have trouble matching the FE's torque). They should have iron blocks, aluminum heads and waterpumps and carry a single 4 bbl. They should each produce the same power output-let's say 500 FWHP. The engine's location should be determined by the location of the trans mount on the chassis. That keeps their mass consistent in each car. Chassis should have same gearbox, driveshaft and rear gear. They should be weighed with corner scales and carry the same brakes and tires. The only difference so far is that the Windsor will weigh maybe 40 pounds less than our sample FE.
Then they should do timed laps over a technical course like Watkins Glen (I think Lime Rock may be too short a distance with less variety of straights and corners). I'm sure Miller or Barber would do nicely too. They should be driven by two Cobra-experienced guys like McMahon and 3170 (there are plenty of others-I'm just talkin' here). Drivers should do fixed number of hot laps then switch cars. And do it often enough to get meaningful data.
My guess is that there won't be a significant difference in lap times and that subjectively, each driver will not find a 'nose heavy' (understeering pig) in the two.
Fire away.

[Jerry Clayton]

It'll come down to brakes and flywheel weight--both of those factors will overshadow the minute amount of weight bias of 40# between the sb windsor and bb fe and roll center ht

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

It'll come down to brakes and flywheel weight--both of those factors will overshadow the minute amount of weight bias of 40# between the sb windsor and bb fe and roll center ht

I think so too. Brakes being the same equipment but stopping a fractionally lighter package won't matter much at all.
That's why I contend the whole weight bias thing is BS-unless you pit an all iron 385 against an aluminum 302.

[Jerry Clayton]

even the camshaft for my engine is rifle drilled

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

even the camshaft for my engine is rifle drilled

So maybe 385 pounds and 600 HP n/a?

[Jerry Clayton]

I'm planning on Bonneville

So I'm not so concerned about weight bias, its going to be more of an aero game

[AL427SBF]

This has nothing to do with Richard Hudgins, very poor taste on your part to even equate this to a JBL discussion. What is does prove is you're a classless act unlike Richard who obviously knows the value of a SB to get a well balanced road course car.

No where have I said top heavy, nose heavy etc. This has always been about a balanced car for road course racing ...

Big Block guys forever trying to make the case that there is no weight/distribution difference between a FE and a Windsor. Absolutely laughable, you can't argue with physics. Spend some time around the road course guys who WIN and see what they are running lol.

See underline, that equals BALANCE. If you don't get it, well not much I can do, you can't fix stupid.
----

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

. If you don't get it, well not much I can do, you can't fix stupid.

Uhhh, Al... don't let the gruff exterior of Chas. fool you. He has decades of experience in the performance automotive parts world along with competition speed events to boot. He knoweth what he speaketh of.... (He really does.)

[Dons427]

I own an ERA 427 car #690 with FE 428 with aluminum heads, waterpump and intake.
The car has the independant rear with outboard brakes.
The literature on the car and talking to Bob Punam from ERA state;
The car weighs in at; 2,450 lbs, with 1,250 in front and 1,200 in rear.
If this is true; the car is well balanced.

Don