427 Tunnel Port Help! Need Engine Builder!

[FIA-ERA]

I've got a special project here and I'm having troubles finding the right shop to do the work. I've contacted a few but haven't had any calls back? I've found a guy but he's been at 3 shops in 4 years? I just DON"T want to do this twice and finding an expert with FE motors is a must, these motors have their own quirks! I'm right outside of Atlanta, Ga. Any recommendations??

I have a 67 427 side oiler, matching tunnel port heads, choice of three different intakes to use, the perfect car- a 67 GT500 that's non original (easy purist). Both the motor and car are pretty special to me and I believe with the newer advances in FE technology it's possible to build a "streetable" TP. I don't have the stroker kit, pistons, cam, rocker arms, etc. Any advice out there too?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!! Regards, Matt

[flipscobra]

There is a Cobra engine builder right there in McDonough Ga. Southern Automotive Engine, Call an talk to Bill Parham, he built my Shelby block to a 484 an I have run it for 6 years with no major trouble an about 26000 miles. He is the closes you will find. Flip

[blykins]

I'm in central KY, I don't know how far of a radius you were looking in. I'd be happy to help you out.

If you're set with someone in GA, then I would recommend Jon Kaase in Winder, GA.

[FIA-ERA]

Thanks Brent! I might just have to call you. I've called or emailed 4 different really good (one you mentioned already) engine builders (I MEAN REALLY GOOD!) and they either are too busy and can't get to it for another 4 months or they just won't respond back, at all. I'll send you everyone in a PM or later, no need for everyone to know . I just have a lot of questions and I just want it done right. This motor has a lot of meaning to me and the car is super special too. I found this car the summer out of high school and have been after it ever since. This motor is pretty standard 427 stuff but the TP heads really throw some more detailed work into the mix. The motor in the Shelby right now suffered a clasped lifter and three bent push rods. It's never been right as the owner says! I'll try to call you tomorrow to discuss more. This could be a very interesting build as it's not your typical 427 FE build. Thanks for the response! Regards, Matt

[blykins]

Matt, I'll be more than happy to talk to you. I'm kinda busy myself, but I'm not running 4 months out...

I do enjoy the rare engines....cookie cutters are so.....cookie cutter...hahaha

[patrickt]

Solid flat tappet... please.

[FIA-ERA]

I will call tomorrow, I have family in Lexington KY so it could be a nice trip to make. This motor is supposedly from Holman and Moody? I have 5 heads (only two are matching), 4 intakes (including a rare prototype sidewinder dual plane for a TP), and one block! I will also need a big in/ big out toploader. I've sourced one down here but I haven't pulled on that one as of yet. He wanted to take some of my toploader stuff in trade. I have just bought an upgraded 9" center section so I'm good there. Just trying to get my ducks in a row and take the time to do it right, the car deserves it too! Thanks again!

Definitely NOT cookie cutter!!

[blykins]

BTW, you asked for some comments on parts selection.

If you're looking for another rotating assembly, I would definitely go the stroker route. The 4.250" cranks will net you 482 cubes with a 427 bore. Standard run-of-the-mill setup, with a Scat 9000 series crank, Scat rods, and Diamond/Mahle pistons. If you are not of the "purist" mind, it's almost more cost effective to go with all new parts than to R&R a crankshaft, rods, etc.

You have several choices with camshafts. I tend to go straight for the hydraulic roller for a nice street build. No maintenance, no break-in, no fuss, no muss. Most of my 482-496 cube FE's peak at around 6000-6200 with the hydraulic roller stuff. You also have choice of flat tappet cams and solid roller cams. However, with your "streetable" comment, I think the hydraulic roller would fit you nicely. I can also get some nice TP roller rockers (with billet stands & hardened shafts) that would work well with the setup.

If you do go with the stroker route, I would consider using a 1x4 single plane TP intake if you have it. The bigger engines will take advantage of a single plane intake easier without any manner compromises.

[FIA-ERA]

Solid flat tappet... please.

Well, Patrickt it's up to what the doc says... I agree whole heartedly but it's NOT very easy to adjust the valves on a 67 Mustang with a FE in it's engine bay! It takes all the patience one can muster to even want to work on this motor in that car. My old Cobra was a piece of cake compared to this old car! But it's a hobby right!

[Dwight]

Keith Craft 1-87025-467460

http://www.keithcraft.com/

we have three of his FEs in out group and a few small blocks he has built for us.
Dyno'ed so you know what you are getting. Clean shop and a great staff.
I can highly recommend him.

Dwight Frye

[FIA-ERA]

Thanks Brent!

I purposely didn't get the crank and rods that was offered with the motor as they were not the original and were, well pretty worn out. The crank was a "grooved journal" and the rods resembled LeMans rods at one time . I'm concerned with staying around the stock 427 bore because of the thin walls. The stroker kits we can talk about more but your thinking the same as me. The hydraulic roller is your call based on our discussions. I'm glad to hear of some good rocker stands are out there as I haven't found much along the way for TP's.

The single plane four intake is the one that I don't have (Nascar version). I do have a cherry 2x4 single plane, a 2x4 dual plane(GT40 style needs slight repair, with "Diamond tubes"), another 2x4 single plane with "oval tubes" and the 1x4 dual plane (pretty slick but weird too). I hear stories all day that these motors, when done right, are just killer. But you MUST have the cubic inches to let them breath down low.

At the end of the day I've always been told, take you parts to the engine builder and let him decide what to do, not you. I'm trying to find that faith if you will .

Thanks! Matt

[olddog]

Food for thought. The only thing that looks better than a dual four barrel carb set up is webbers. A single 4 barrel would be easier and perhaps run better, but a tunnel port needs two for wow factor.

Webbers would be great, but the cost and PIA factor wouldn't be worth it for me, but it might be to you. My hat is off to anyone who has them.

Just an opinion from a wanna be - I would stroke it and go with the Hydraulic roller lifters as Blykins suggested. I would stay more to the mild side on the cam. Not so much lift as to stress parts and 240 ish duration at .050 lift. I would be happy with a peak Hp around 5500 rpm or less for a street car. I would not want to spin such a hard to find and expensive engine over 6000. Just me.

[FIA-ERA]

Webbers would be great, but the cost and PIA factor wouldn't be worth it for me, but it might be to you. My hat is off to anyone who has them.

Olddog, I'm with ya. BUT, the only "Weber" intake made for a Tunnel Port was actually a Cross Ram intake. Just Google it. It's mega rare (from the GT40 program) and it would be pretty *****in but more headache than I need! I agree with you too, I don't want to turn a ton of RPM as I can't afford to burn this one up! Although, I still want to build it to be as tough as I can. From what I've gathered even in a detuned state it should make 550 HP/ torque at ease. This could be a fun project!! Thanks!

[olddog]

My rule of thumb is 1.25 torque per cubic inch is reasonably easy to get. With 480 cid that is 600 lb-ft of torque. If you can hold the torque up there to 5252 rpm that's 600 Hp. With tunnel port heads you should not need a radical cam to get there. If you are not going to spin it real high, why kill low end torque to gain a few Hp where you are not going to spin it?

[blykins]

Originally Posted by FIA-ERA

At the end of the day I've always been told, take you parts to the engine builder and let him decide what to do, not you.

I don't think I necessarily agree with that. Just in the same way that you wouldn't just hand a home builder a pile of 2x4's and say, "Build me something...", you wouldn't hand an engine builder a bunch of parts and say the same thing.

I'm looking through my email list of some current customers right now.

I'm building a 408C for a customer right now. It will be getting its own magazine article in Modified Mustangs & Fords magazine. He and I have sent 87 emails back and forth, pertaining to his build.

A customer that's getting a 410W short block: 61.

A customer that's getting a 482FE all aluminum FE: 295...hahahah (that one's an aberration, he's in France, and he has had two engine projects going on at once)

So, with that being said, communication is key.

Dual plane intakes can be made to perform as well. My 482FE engines with Performer RPMs and ported Edelbrock heads will make 580-600hp.

With the intakes that you have, I would either do the 2x4 single plane (which would require a little more tuning attention on your part), or the 1x4 dual plane.

Tunnel Ports are like any other engine: cubic inches makes the hp/tq curves broader. You can make horsepower and you can keep a broad torque curve as well. You essentially have 3 crankshafts available to you: a 3.98", 4.125", and a 4.250". That would be around 450 cubes, 468 cubes, and 482 cubes respectively. In a heavier car, such as a vintage Mustang, I personally would go with the 4.250" stroke and let the engine make gobs and gobs of torque.

[Jerry Clayton]

Iwould destroke it to 396 inches and let it breathe /rpm like the tunnel port and 7000 rpm engines were developed--Some of Fords best race results came with the nascar engines destroked/427 bore so they could run less weight(fairlanes/comets) save brakes on the shorter ( 1-1 1/2 mile) tracks---

You'll have more power /torque than you will use driving and can still make an scary run when ever you want to change underwear--need more bottom end torque? thats what the gear shift is for---anytime your running thru the gears you will be above the torque curve in any hp car--thats why the hp number is the one that counts--

If that is a H-M block it isn't drilled for hydraulic tappets----