Craftsman now mostly made in China. Bummer.

[dcdoug]

One option for torque wrenches is CDI Torque Products, America's Largest Manufacturer of Torque Equipment They were acquired by Snap-On and used to make the torque wrenches for Snap On (at least that's my understanding). They still sell CDI torque wrenches that are cheaper because you don't pay for the label, but quality should be the same. The also supply torque wrenches to the US Gov. I think they are manufactured in the US, although not completely sure about that and their website is ambiguous on that point.

[ChiChris]

Once lower end tool providers started to offer a replacement warranty, it was just a matter of time Sears had to cheapen their products to compete. I do remember calling SK a few years ago and being told they do not offer a replacement warranty.

[REAL 1]

Geez, what's so bad about China?

Jeff Imelt, head of GE and the head of Obama's economic development panel shipped jobs there so it must be a good thing. They're our friend and Ally according to our "leader".

[REAL 1]

A huge part of the the problem is Unions. They were created to protect the worker and are now jeopardizing workers buy unrelenting and unrealistic demands in many cases. Ergo jobs go overseas. They don't get it.

I whole heartedly agree with right to work laws.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

A huge part of the the problem is Unions. They were created to protect the worker and are now jeopardizing workers buy unrelenting and unrealistic demands in many cases. Ergo jobs go overseas. They don't get it.

I whole heartedly agree with right to work laws.

Yep, what put Twinkies out of business???? The union thought the company was bluffing, but they weren't. Did the union members really think they were properly represented?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Yep, what put Twinkies out of business???? The union thought the company was bluffing, but they weren't. Did the union members really think they were properly represented?

What put Twinkies out of business was the fact that no one was eating them anymore.

[patrickt]

RodKnock agrees with every post I've made on this thread. And, if there's one thing I respect RodKnock for, it's his business sense and his knack for numbers. That said, I fully expect RodKnock to post something to the effect of "Once again Patrick speaketh the truth and I salute him for it."

[olddog]

I don't like unions and don't want to work in one, but I'm not anti union. Although they are part of the problem they are not a huge part. Plenty of non-union plants have been shipped over seas.

The biggest cost factor in the USA is government regulation compliance. Then comes the fines for not being in compliance. Topped off with litigation uncertainty (the more successful the bigger the target on your back. All this in a country that has the highest tax rates, but if you pay off the politicians you get special deductions and can pay nothing. Publicly these same politicians will ridicule you, as greedy SOBs that don't want to pay their fair share.

[olddog]

I remember when gasoline was $0.20 - $0.25 a gallon and minimum wage was $1.50 an hour. Good manufacturing jobs paid 2 - 3 times minimum wage.

I'll use 25 cents and do the math. Gasoline has been running $3 - $4 a gallon, which is 12 to 16 times as much as it was. So minimum wage should be $18 - $24 an hour and good manufacturing jobs would be $36 - $72 an hour. Looks like wages have not kept up.

To be fair taxes on gasoline are higher today than back then, so not all the change is energy cost, but it could be argued that cost after tax is what everyone pays.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by olddog

I remember when gasoline was $0.20 - $0.25 a gallon and minimum wage was $1.50 an hour....

But over the past 100 years, food prices have fallen by 82%. Why shouldn't we use that basis instead of gasoline?

[olddog]

Originally Posted by patrickt

But over the past 100 years, food prices have fallen by 82%. Why shouldn't we use that basis instead of gasoline?

Because the cost of energy impacts every part of the economy and therefore has the biggest impact on the economy. The price of eggs impacts very little in the economy.

Now at this point, we are going on my memory, which isn't very accurate. Candy bars were a nickle now a buck. Cars were $2500 and now $25000. However candy bars are different sizes and car options radically different. Difficult to compare. Energy is pretty much energy and easier to compare. I know octane, lead, etc. but it provides the same purpose.

PS
Perhaps the price of a barrel of oil would be a better number, but I didn't have them in my head, and gasoline is tied to the price of oil.

PPS
Everyone relates to the price of gasoline, not oil. Most peoples eyes roll back in their head if you start talking about $/btu costs.

[patrickt]

Not just eggs. Food prices in general have fallen by over 80%. See: Over 100 Years, Food Prices Have FALLEN By 82% But what's more even the poorest of the poor now have much more than they ever did. See: How Are We Doing?; The American Magazine Note in that article, which is from the election before last, that a gallon of gasoline still goes for less than 11 minutes of work.

[olddog]

In fairness I edited my previous post (PS & PPS) after patrickt posted.

Food production, like manufacturing widgets, prices have came down because of improvements that reduce costs. We have better fertilizers, insecticides, no till planting, better machinery, etc. A farmer can plow in an hour what would have taken weeks with a horse. Of course the prices have come down! Your comparing grapes to watermelons.

Energy has not changed. A btu is a btu and always will be. Yes the cost to recover energy changes, and supply verses demand impacts price. I expect we can produce a barrel of oil cheaper today than we could in 1900, too. However I cannot think of any one thing that is more closely tied to the economy and more stable in terms of value than energy.

Now if you think the governments inflation index is a better number, fine use it. Find the year minimum wage was $1.50 and run the numbers. I expect you will get similar numbers, but it would be very interesting to know.

[RodKnock]

I generally will not get involved with political discussions because a) there is no one answer and b) what do a bunch of car guys know about the economy when the world's best economists can't figure it out.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I generally will not get involved with political discussions because a) there is no one answer and b) what do a bunch of car guys know about the economy when the world's best economists can't figure it out.

That is "RodKnock Validation" of thread content, if I ever heard it....

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I generally will not get involved with political discussions because a) there is no one answer and b) what do a bunch of car guys know about the economy when the world's best economists can't figure it out.

I'll tell you what: Common Sense.

Politicians and economists leave that at home when they go to work in the morning.

I've often thought about running for president (and the though is happening more often). My platform will be "I can't screw it up any more than they have".

I keep waiting for someone like Harry Truman to come along again. Sadly, noone wants the job.

[maurice19]

Well said Rodknock
Maurice

[lippy]

This is all interesting, but back to the point of my original post... I just bought some used Armstrong metric ratcheting wrenches on eBay for a good price. Clearly US made, and only cost me a bit more than the new Chinese Craftsman stuff. If I like them, I'll buy the SAE set before my Cobra arrives. I'm not hardcore but I prefer to buy American when possible so this seems like a good solution.

[Tutosnake]

Hey y'all, going back to then Craftsman tools being made in China:

My wife (god bless her... she's so awesome) got me a 540-pc mechanics tool set along with a 14-drawer tool cart, AND a 9-drawer tool chest ALL for christmas!! I was so elated and proud until I saw this thread Now I will always be proud/thankful that my wife gifted me like that, but wanted to run discuss this with you.

The outside (main) box says "made in USA". I just opened the box to inspect its contents. It seems that out of 540 pieces, there are 76 that do not have "forged in USA" or "made in USA". These 76 are 60 hex keys that come in 4 different packages. The packages themselves are labeled "made in USA" but each key is only marked "Craftman". Then there are 16 ratcheting wrenches (8metric 8inches) that are marked "Craftsman U.S.A." but do not say "made in USA" or "forged in U.S.A.".

So what do you guys make out of all this? Do I have 464 pieces made in the USA and 76 pieces made in China? Or, are they all made in the USA? Or, are they all made in China? If they are all made in China, is Craftsman misrepresenting their product? I have not found "made in China" anywhere in the box or contents...

From what I read here, do I need to deduce that I have a set that is mostly made in USA and a fraction (76 pieces, or 14%) that may have been made in China (or elsewhere since there is no indication)?

Like someone else mentioned earlier, does it really matter (political/economics matter aside) to the rookie/amateur car guy? Probably not...

[jwd]

Originally Posted by Tutosnake

Like someone else mentioned earlier, does it really matter (political/economics matter aside) to the rookie/amateur car guy? Probably not...

No, it doesn't matter. The warranty is what matters. There is almost NOTHING sold in the U.S. that is made 100% here. That includes EVERY car from the big three.