Craftsman now mostly made in China. Bummer.

[lippy]

So here's the skinny - if you want US made ratcheting wrenches you have two choices, SnapOn and Armstrong. As far as I can tell, for that product, SK, Matco, MAC, and all of the others are made in Taiwan or China.

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by lippy

So here's the skinny - if you want US made ratcheting wrenches you have two choices, SnapOn and Armstrong. As far as I can tell, for that product, SK, Matco, MAC, and all of the others are made in Taiwan or China.

Matco is made right here in Ohio. They are a customer of mine and I have been in their 2 plants many times.

Wright Tools and Cornwell are also made here in Ohio.

[patrickt]

The more sensitive subject is whether American labor should be entitled to a higher standard of "global living" simply because they live in this country. If foreign workers are prepared to provide suitable services, because their accustomed standard of living is lower, shouldn't our competing workforce lower its standard of living expectations in order to compete? People don't want to talk about that because the issue has the potential to explode... like stepping on a Twinkie....

[Rare Iron]

Originally Posted by patrickt

The more sensitive subject is whether American labor should be entitled to a higher standard of "global living" simply because they live in this country. If foreign workers are prepared to provide suitable services, because their accustomed standard of living is lower, shouldn't our competing workforce lower its standard of living expectations in order to compete? People don't want to talk about that because the issue has the potential to explode... like stepping on a Twinkie....

Sensitive? Yeah, we should lower our standard of living here in the US so we can be on par with China & third-world countries. That's the solution right?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Rare Iron

Sensitive? Yeah, we should lower our standard of living here in the US so we can be on par with China & third-world countries. That's the solution right?

Originally Posted by olddog

The problem is your not thinking long term....

See? I told you it was sensitive. Look, I don't want to seem unfeeling, but the fiscal realities are that American labor must be prepared to compete globally if it expects to keep jobs. If domestic labor costs exceed foreign labor costs by more than a "token amount," management will move the production overseas -- I'm just telling you like it is. You know, a lot of us on this board had parents that were raised during the Depression, and we, ourselves, grew up in the shadow of our parents' life experiences. I believe they would tell American labor that if the jobs no longer can support your desired standard of living, and you want to keep those jobs, then you must be prepared to lower your standard of living. Like I said, it's a very sensitive subject....

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by patrickt

See? I told you it was sensitive. Look, I don't want to seem unfeeling, but the fiscal realities are that American labor must be prepared to compete globally if it expects to keep jobs. If domestic labor costs exceed foreign labor costs by more than a "token amount," management will move the production overseas -- I'm just telling you like it is. You know, a lot of us on this board had parents that were raised during the Depression, and we, ourselves, grew up in the shadow of our parents' life experiences. I believe they would tell American labor that if the jobs no longer can support your desired standard of living, and you want to keep those jobs, then you must be prepared to lower your standard of living. Like I said, it's a very sensitive subject....

Just so you are aware..it is generally NOT the labor cost that is the deciding factor on where to produce the items. Since the value of the dollar has dropped and the Chinese are demanding higher pay, that is becoming much smaller of an issue. The big difference is in material costs. The Chinese government holds the costs of the material artificially low via government subsidies. For example, a few years ago, you could buy a complete mold roughly 6'x3'x12" in dimensions from China for about $1000. The material alone in the USA was more than that. It was cheaper to buy the screwed up mold from China, ship it here, and have it repaired than to buy material here.

Extensive use of automation and sophisticated CNC machines has made any difference in labor negligible. We are now competing with shipping costs, material costs, and delivery times. We can beat all of those in the USA except your most basic of items...like hand tools.

[patrickt]

The point is, the American worker must be prepared to say "I will work for less, and lower my standard of living in order to do so, to keep my job in this country." Do you disagree?

[olddog]

Originally Posted by patrickt

The more sensitive subject is whether American labor should be entitled to a higher standard of "global living" simply because they live in this country. If foreign workers are prepared to provide suitable services, because their accustomed standard of living is lower, shouldn't our competing workforce lower its standard of living expectations in order to compete? People don't want to talk about that because the issue has the potential to explode... like stepping on a Twinkie....

The problem is your not thinking long term. Why do corporations move manufacturing off shore and then bring the end product back to the USA to sell it? Why not keep manufacturing in the USA and add the new plant off shore and sell the products there? The answer is they do not pay a high enough wage for those people to afford their product. They want to bring it back here to sell it to what was the greatest market in the world. The long term end result of bringing USA labor rates down to 3rd world rates is the destruction of our market.

When 80% of our people no longer make enough money to afford anything, they cannot buy anything. It's already happening. People continued to buy using home equity loans and credit cards. Then when the normal economic cycle took a dip, the Fed had to bail out the banks that were collapsing right and left.

What percent of our population are on some form of government assistance? When you can live at a higher standard of living on welfare than you can working, why work?

About half our population pays no income tax. Now part of the government wants to increase taxes rather than cut spending (much of which is assistance to those who do not work).

Now when labor rates are below $10/hr and 80% of the population is there, how many attorneys will the market support charging $200/hr? Will there be any high paying jobs left?

Yes the long term end result of moving manufacturing off shore and lowering wages is a financial collapse of the government, and without the manufacturing capability, a country without the means to defend itself.

[lippy]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

Matco is made right here in Ohio. They are a customer of mine and I have been in their 2 plants many times.

Wright Tools and Cornwell are also made here in Ohio.

My web search indicated this particular Matco tool is made in Taiwan. SK and Mac also.

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by lippy

My web search indicated this particular Matco tool is made in Taiwan. SK and Mac also.

I am going to double check. It has been about 4 years since I was in there, but another of our reps visits there all the time. They are about 45 minutes from my house. I do know they have 2 plants that manufacture tools in Stow, Ohio. I've seen how the sockets and some ratchets were made.

[mpanten]

Originally Posted by lippy

So here's the skinny - if you want US made ratcheting wrenches you have two choices, SnapOn and Armstrong. As far as I can tell, for that product, SK, Matco, MAC, and all of the others are made in Taiwan or China.

Add JH williams to the list. Same company as snap on. Some people say the exact same as snap on others say thats not true but I have some and they are fantastic and made in USA. Cornwell are very good but pretty expensive like snap on and matco. If I were buying tools again they would be JH williams. I thought SK was mostly USA but that could have changed.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by mpanten

Add JH williams to the list.

That's right. They used to call their stuff the "Super-Wrench," or something like that. Man, they've been around since the Mayflower....


Ooooooh. See: http://www.amazon.com/Williams-WSC-1.../dp/B001355MX6

[lippy]

Originally Posted by mpanten

Add JH williams to the list. Same company as snap on. Some people say the exact same as snap on others say thats not true but I have some and they are fantastic and made in USA. Cornwell are very good but pretty expensive like snap on and matco. If I were buying tools again they would be JH williams. I thought SK was mostly USA but that could have changed.

Williams's ratcheting wrenches are made in Taiwan. Several of their tools are US but not those. They still are good quality and decent price. You can get an SAE set for about $80 on Amazon. Not as good as SnapOn but better than Craftsman.