Pre-oiler question

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by scottj

What I find entertaining is, if you read aviation websites, you will find that those guys sound a lot like you guys.

Uh, does that make us pilots then? Or maybe just as smart as pilots?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Uh, does that make us pilots then? Or maybe just as smart as pilots?

Uh-only if you leave the hangar once in a while...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Uh-only if you leave the hangar once in a while...

I "leave the hangar" nearly every day, almost immediately after taking my clothes from it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

I guess I'll have to take your word for it since we don't have pictures of the bearings....

Any picture that I could take of a bearing would be worthless anyway, since I wouldn't know what one looks like even if it hit in the a$$.

[mdross1]

One thing is for certain we all have our opinions and we have to leave it at that.Pre oilers are to me a very good idea especially in a plain bearing engine.For many years have always wondered about the cam lobe lifter interface,starting dry even after the two surfaces got through that 20 minute 2000rpm seat in period safely.

Used to wonder all the time about valve springs in an engine that sits a lot,then all the seals consumed a lot of thought and the list goes on.Over the years those concerns slowly went away or I learned to live with them.

Now use what I feel is the best oil available and build all my own drive trains.Basically blueprinting everything followed by what I believe to be the best breakin procedures.
Bottom line, all this past experience gives me the confidence to put my opinion on paper or digitize it,because I know it works.

By no means do I take away from any of you other very talented and experienced builders we are all after the same things. Perfection!
Mike Ross

[lvhdude]

I wonder how effectve the Accusump (or similar) type system is on an engine that sits for months at a time. Since the oil is trapped by a soleniod valve (usually?) and seals on a piston backed by air (or nitrogen). How long is the reserve oil charge maintained? I can see the advantage in a raceing situation where there could be a momentary starvation issue, but as a preluber, the electric (aviation style) pump might be the hot ticket, no loss of available oil after long periods of inactivity. It would however be subject to the same oil starvation condition in a race application depending on pickup location. No? Maybe it depends on which issue is the major concern? Prelube or starvation. I was leaning toward the Accusump system 2qt for me, but now maybe the electric is best for me. Verrrryyy interesting........(knocks ashes from cig)

[AL427SBF]

... but now maybe the electric is best for me. Verrrryyy interesting........(knocks ashes from cig)

Ditto, scroll down to the vids ...
INFINITY Aerospace: Home Page www.InfinityAerospace.com, Infinity 1, landing gear, stick grips

[vector1]

if the ego wasn't so fearful and ignorant marketers would never make a dime.

has anybody ever figured out how to pre oil piston rings? does anybody know what wears out on engines? i have a 18-1 compression engine that sits for months at a time, will probably see 300k miles easily with minimal maintenance, and i would bet if tore down at that time the bearings would look fabulous. that hardest thing on engines is starting and the wear on piston rings. pretty soon your going to need a bandaid for a bandaid, for a bandaid.

[AL427SBF]

has anybody ever figured out how to pre oil piston rings?

that one is easy, pull the plugs and squirt some oil down there. as for the rest of that post, just a tad over the top lol

[Bill E]

Sure, if it has been sitting. Get a dish detergent plastic bottle and drill the lid out to fit a small diameter clear hose snugly. fill it half way with 50/50 premix gas & oil. Stick the hose in the vent hole of the carb. Do not over fill. I put a 20 thousandth carb jet in the end of the hose. Soon as I see gas's coming out the vent around the hose. I stop, then start the engine. Let it run un tell the smoke clears. There is also a marine product to winterize your boat that is sprayed down the carb at the final shut down that will solve the problem of condensation and rust in the cylinder and intake.

[Jerry Clayton]

what you really need around an engine that hasn't run for months-----no air cleaner, a flooded carb, oil fouled spark plugs----where's you fire extingisher?anything parked just outside the garage door?

[kevins2]

After reading through this thread, for a street driven car, if you put all the opinions in a blender you come out with the Accusump probably not necessary but certainly can't hurt and may provide some marginal benefit.

Rather than pre-oiling, what do you think of pre-heating the oil? My engine builder has recommended an oil pan heater - not the cheesy stick on kind - but one that installs inside the oil pan through a welded-on bung. Assuming I don't mind plugging the thing in 20 - 30 minutes before driving, and plug it into a cord with a timer in case my CRS kicks in and I plug it in and forget...it seems to me that having warm oil at start, although not pre-oiling, would provide good benefit. Also, since I plan to drive the car in cooler weather it seems this would be a good investment for about $225.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by kevins2

After reading through this thread, for a street driven car, if you put all the opinions in a blender you come out with the Accusump probably not necessary but certainly can't hurt and may provide some marginal benefit.

Rather than pre-oiling, what do you think of pre-heating the oil? My engine builder has recommended an oil pan heater - not the cheesy stick on kind - but one that installs inside the oil pan through a welded-on bung. Assuming I don't mind plugging the thing in 20 - 30 minutes before driving, and plug it into a cord with a timer in case my CRS kicks in and I plug it in and forget...it seems to me that having warm oil at start, although not pre-oiling, would provide good benefit. Also, since I plan to drive the car in cooler weather it seems this would be a good investment for about $225.

An oil heater would be a good idea for your area, warm/warmed up oil is a lot thinner than cold oil and will flow so much better at start up......also, a good oil pump will not hurt....
case in point:I rebuilt a 351-W for a daily driver truck, standard rebuild, the owner brought me the parts and I did the work for him, the oil pump was a stock replacement parts store oil pump........on start up,the oil pressure gauge would sit still for at least 3 seconds, then slowly go up to 50 psi, and I mean slowly, but acceptable......

On my 331 stroker,I'm using a Melling High Performance oil pump, standard pressure/volume, on start up, the oil pressure instantly goes up to 60 psi, and I mean instantly......
BTW: both engines use the same oil, 15/40 Shell Rotella T...so that takes the oil itself out of the equation....

David

[olddog]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

the oil pump was a stock replacement parts store oil pump........on start up,the oil pressure gauge would sit still for at least 3 seconds, then slowly go up to 50 psi, and I mean slowly, but acceptable......

On my Melling High Performance oil pump, standard pressure/volume, on start up, the oil pressure instantly goes up to 60 psi, and I mean instantly......
David

To be scientific, I would have to consider that the sender/gauge combination in the two different vehicles could be different. Capacitors make great filters, but they add lag time. You would have to test both engines with the same mechanical gauge to be certain.

Honestly gear pumps can have poor efficiency if they have too much clearances, which causes low flow at high pressure. I cannot see a mechanical reason that could cause one to build pressure slowly.

PS
It occurred to me that if all the oil drains back to the pan on an engine, the pump is going to take time to fill the passages and it will be compressing air as it pushes it out. On the other hand, if the passages do not drain back, oil is not compressible and the pressure would be instant. Perhaps a loose pump would allow drain back where a tight pump would slow that process down. That said I could be wrong.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by olddog

To be scientific, I would have to consider that the sender/gauge combination in the two different vehicles could be different. Capacitors make great filters, but they add lag time. You would have to test both engines with the same mechanical gauge to be certain.

Honestly gear pumps can have poor efficiency if they have too much clearances, which causes low flow at high pressure. I cannot see a mechanical reason that could cause one to build pressure slowly.

PS
It occurred to me that if all the oil drains back to the pan on an engine, the pump is going to take time to fill the passages and it will be compressing air as it pushes it out. On the other hand, if the passages do not drain back, oil is not compressible and the pressure would be instant. Perhaps a loose pump would allow drain back where a tight pump would slow that process down. That said I could be wrong.

I agree a pump with a lot of clearance will build pressure slower, that's why I think the precision made Melling pump was better than the generic parts store pump....I didn't use the same gauge, but do/did check the gauges for accuracy as I do all my gauges before I install them....
I think the High Performance line of pumps are made to tighter tolerances than the generic pumps, that's why they get the pressure up quicker, they are more efficient to begin with...

David

[kevins2]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

An oil heater would be a good idea for your area, warm/warmed up oil is a lot thinner than cold oil and will flow so much better at start up......
David

True, and the engine builder pointed out that even in warmer weather there is good benefit to using the pre-heater to get the oil closer to operating temp. I'm still reading about these but one claims to add 50 - 60 degrees in 15 min. and 175 degrees in 45 minutes. If true, that would absolutely be beneficial...not the same as pre-oiling, but the next best thing and a lot easier to install.

Regards,

Kevin

[Bill E]

I guess it could be easer on the oil pump drive shaft that a cold start up.

[vector1]

Mobil 1 0W40