Pre-oiler question

[lippy]

So here are more specifics on the use case: What if I used an oil like Joe Gibbs Synthetic Hot Rod Oil (synthetic + high zinc content), and started the car even during the worst conditions 1x/mo and mostly more often?

[Chilibit]

While assiduously avoiding a judgment call, at some point we leave the realm of protecting the motor and enter the realm of protecting the owner. Where that is for each of us is different. All of the paths discussed lead to a motor that will likely outlast all of us. Virtually every moving piece of my motor that could be acquired in forged form was purchased that way. Do I need it? Absolutely no way. Almost ridiculous. It wasn't about the motor--it was about me.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by lippy

So here are more specifics on the use case: What if I used an oil like Joe Gibbs Synthetic Hot Rod Oil (synthetic + high zinc content), and started the car even during the worst conditions 1x/mo and mostly more often?

Fine. I prefer Brad Penn, and they make a big deal about their "cling factor" for precisely that reason. They say: This unique base oil causes our Penn Grade 1®High Performance Oil to cling tenaciously to engine parts to minimize wear during high engine torque loading and/or periods of heavily stressed operation such as those experienced during competition. This same oil ‘cling’ helps prevent ‘dry-start’ conditions to minimize wear even after the engine has been sitting idle for extended periods. Source: Brad Penn and Dry Starts

I'm sure Joe Gibbs is just as good, and lots of guys like it; I just prefer Brad Penn... and I like the green color, too.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by lippy

So here are more specifics on the use case: What if I used an oil like Joe Gibbs Synthetic Hot Rod Oil (synthetic + high zinc content), and started the car even during the worst conditions 1x/mo and mostly more often?

My oil of choice is Joe Gibbs, also highly recommended by Keith Craft, can't beat the zinc! Still use an Accusump, no downside imo. Forget the pre-oiling debate for a minute, it also maintains oil pressure through hard cornering - and 1 day you will want to give that a try

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Forget the pre-oiling debate for a minute, it also maintains oil pressure through hard cornering - and 1 day you will want to give that a try

So does a road-race designed oil pan-and a dry sump for that matter.

[patrickt]

<sigh> ... if the issue you're going for is the dry start thing, then all the comparisons I've read between Brad Penn and Joe Gibbs give the slight edge to Brad Penn on that point. For example, this is fairly typical, from Circle Track: Pennsylvania crude oil, which is the base stock for Brad Penn Racing Oils, has a naturally occurring wetting agent that enables the oil to stay put and resist slinging for an extended period of time. Engine Lubricants - Solving The Flat-Tappet Puzzle - Circle Track Magazine Now, is all of the stuff that I read true? Who knows. Basically, if you just do what Chas tells you to do you'll be fine.

[lippy]

Originally Posted by patrickt

<sigh> ... if the issue you're going for is the dry start thing, then all the comparisons I've read between Brad Penn and Joe Gibbs give the slight edge to Brad Penn on that point. For example, this is fairly typical, from Circle Track: Pennsylvania crude oil, which is the base stock for Brad Penn Racing Oils, has a naturally occurring wetting agent that enables the oil to stay put and resist slinging for an extended period of time. Engine Lubricants - Solving The Flat-Tappet Puzzle - Circle Track Magazine Now, is all of the stuff that I read true? Who knows. Basically, if you just do what Chas tells you to do you'll be fine.

Let's assume that Brad Penn and Joe Gibbs are roughly equal and better than standard oil for infrequently used cars because of their zinc content. Does the use of one of those oils do the trick for a car that is only started once per month, or would a pre oiler/accumulator provide any "dry start" benefits?

[patrickt]

For once every three months, I say no difference whatsoever. I absolutely, positively believe that. And the way I piss money away on this hobby, if I had thought even slightly differently, I'd have one on mine.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

For once every three months, I say no difference whatsoever. I absolutely, positively believe that. And the way I piss money away on this hobby, if I had thought even slightly differently, I'd have one on mine.

Install one or don't.

However, I'm the poster child for letting cars sit for long periods and I've never had a problem whatsoever. In fact, I had installed 3 or 4 engines in my '66 Vette over a span of 25 years and sold the old engines w/o any issues whatsoever after the buyers popped open the oil pan and valve covers. And never heard from them again.

Everyone that I've ever run into (engine builders, install shop, etc.) said it was superfluous.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by lippy

...a car that is only started once per month,

Let's not forget the rear, trans, clutch face, brakes, contacts, and relays too. If you're going to do it right, jack the rear up and put it on stands, then start up the engine, let the clutch in and out a bit, run it through the gears a few times, put it in reverse, too. Pump the brakes while you're at it. OK, hit the turn signals, horn, and turn the steering wheel back and forth. Feel free to say "vroom, vroom, screeaachhhh, vroom, vroom" while you're doing it.

No, I don't do any of this either... but I have met people who have claimed that their clutch disk somehow rusted to their flywheel, over an extended period, and they couldn't break it loose. I think that's about as likely as excessive wear resulting from letting the car sit over the winter. But remember, I stick mine in a car bag with desiccant, which keeps it in a nice, arid bubble inside your garage -- I do believe in doing that.

[Ron61]

I think the temperatures of where you live have a lot to do with that too. When it is summer and 118° here I could just let mine roll out in the driveway and start it and within a few seconds the oil would be everywhere in the engine and the temperatures would be climbing. And I raced mine but I never did put an oil accumulator on it because in this case it was just extra weight and something else to go wrong.

Partrickt,

Didn't your car get heavy carrying it in that bag?

Ron

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

So does a road-race designed oil pan-and a dry sump for that matter.

Particularly for an ERA (ref post #15)