Learning what to buy

[diverrick]

Since I started looking for a Cobra, I find a large amount of people offer a "Kit" Cobra.
The problem come up when you start comparing apples to oranges
I have nothing to compare to, to decide which one for what price.

What I was thinking was, I'd start a thread to see who thinks which model is the best one. and maybe set up a "senority list" if you will. This might have already done,so if so, please let me know, and I'll move over there..
I have seen from 19K to 100 K and they all seem to look the same to my uneducated mind, a newbe. So please be aware that I am just starting on this quest, and therefore might ask questions that have already been asked.
I would say to start out that Kirkham it appears is at the top, but that's just my opinion, based on what I have read.
I'd like to see FFR, Shell, lone star,Morrison, Etc. compared.
I already noticed the Lone star has a different frame as most cars.
Just looking to feel out which one is the car for me.
Lone star web site comes up dead BTW, so that leads me to wonder if they even exist anymore.
If someone could do a graph, that would be wonderful.

[Three Peaks]

The easiest way to narrow down the choices are to determine what your budget is, then determine how you plan on using the car- cruising, drag racing, road racing, open track days and a little cruising, car shows, etc....

Then, you can determine what other values are important to you- originality, body shape and size (there are many differences from one manufacturer to another), engine you want to use and which kits are set up for it.

Also, how much are you willing to do and what skills do you possess to do a build or will you pay someone else to do the build for you? Do you have the patience, skills, and space to do a build? You may want to buy an already sorted out car instead of building if the build doesn't interest you.

Asking for a list of top to bottom kits on a forum like this is just asking for problems. No one is going to down play their kit, (or the kit they are selling), so all you are going to get is opinions, which isn't going to get you anywhere.

Best to just keep reading until you start to get a feel for the plusses and minuses of the different kits and start to narrow down what is going to work for you. Ask lots of questions about certain features like frame styles, body originality/or not, components, handling, etc... and you'll get a feel for what is out there.

Good luck in the search.

Bob

[twobjshelbys]

Go to soem car shows like Cars and Coffee and hover over the Cobras. Ask questions and compare them. Don't be afraid to ask for a ride. I would never let anyone drive it because they are twitchy, but rides were common.

[Seagull81]

Find your local Cobra Club and join. You don't have to have a car to be part of our club, but you must love them. For our cruises we have empty seats for folks to ride along. I know I have more fun with someone to talk to on the cruise. You can see many brands of Cobra this way.

[decooney]

diverrick,
Not to be harsh, but I have a similar thought as others have relayed to you. Hopefully it helps. We've seen you start new threads, get answers to questions there, and then start new threads all over again about the same things in general. It seems to me you might want to start from a baseline of parameters to pick a direction for yourself. It now appears this is what you are trying to do. You will receive varying responses until you lock this down. I'm afraid before folks on CC can truly help you much further, you need to answer basic questions FIRST to get started on the right track. I've seen others recommend similar questions on other threads so I'll throw in my .02 cents to repeat them.

1. What is your max $budget$ limit for your Cobra?

2. How original looking do you want it to be? (1 to 100%)

3. Will you buy a used car done, or build it yourself as a new component build project?

4. How soon do you need it DONE by and will be ready to pay for it?

5. How far are you willing to travel or ship a car from/to? (i.e. 50 to 3000 miles)


You'll get more effective answers if you can help pin this down some. Does this make sense?

[diverrick]

Thanks for all the great info. I have narrowed down some of the questions. My price range will be around 40K It would prefer SB100 qualified, or capable of getting it.
I think I want to go with an already built car or close, like the Lone star combo.
I don't want one built on a mustang frame, but would like to have a built frame.
As for accuracy, of course closer to original is better, but not a show stopper. At this point in my learning curve, I don't see all the finer differences. I'll need to learn alot more about all the differences and what they mean.
I am looking for a driver, parade, show kinda car. Might try it out over in Sonoma a few times just to see what it is like.
Sorry if I made duplicate threads. Maybe I should go back and try to delete the others.

[Wbulk]

One of the real problems is there are not that many guys that are builders that have a wide range of experience with the various brands. Reading this forum to answer your question can be difficult to find the answer to your question. Guys want to defend their own purchase. Even looking at another guys cars is difficult because that version may not be made anymore. So you have to ask when was it manufactured.

Kits can get better and worse over time depending on management and the economy. I have been researching four brands for my next project over the last year. The thing that has helped more than any other is current pictures of cars being built now.

The other issue is room in the car. I have called these companies and gotten the cockpit measurements from all of them. They vary a lot. There are high, medium and low bodies that can affect your seating height and where you look through the windshield. Using various seats can change this within limits. If you are tall, some cars require varying degrees of modifications and you still may not fit.

The other helpful thing you can do is email someone that is building a car now and ask how it is going. Talk to them on the phone and ask specific question about any problems and how the company is to deal with. Understand there is no real kit that is perfect. Just about all have some problems from very minor to serious. There are a few companies that offer cars at a lower price point, and if you have the skills they can be a good deal. Often these require a lot more work and a lot of experience to make a good car. Some guys over estimate their skills and the cars sets in the garage for years.

Good luck.

[WardL]

With the help of several, I've started a Cobra manufacturer's spreadsheet. Try this link:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BzD...XhNMWpHTmFRQTg

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BzD...XhNMWpHTmFRQTg

It is on Google Drive, send me an email if you can't access it.

[tcrist]

Check out these links. They might help in your decision.

Research on Cobra kit cars

List of Manufacturers

[decooney]

diverrick,
For a first Cobra, one thing some folks don't mention is the idea of buying a brand similar to what other locals in your area have already. It simplifies things a bit for newbies when you can leverage support in your area with a group of common friends. This can be particularly helpful when you hook into a local group who has built their own cars and can assist you along the way as you start with small changes or repairs.

For example, when I started there was a local group of us who got into the Unique Motorcars and ERA Cobras and we all helped each other. At the same time there were two other large camps of Factory Five owners who built their cars and they all helped each other out. Its not critical, but its another factor that makes it fun and helpful when you have something in common. I'd recommend straying away from brands no longer in business even if its a good deal. Fabbing up parts that break is okay if you are handy but much easier to buy from a manufacturer who has parts on the shelf today. You mentioned Sonoma, so if it were me, I'd try meeting up with some of the North Bay Cobras group to start and locals around you there who have just about one of every type brand. There are friends in Napa, Sonoma, and all around you who have Cobras there. Get your high level requirements list together and go to one of the monthly meetups there and start looking at the different cars there. You also can spend time on CobraCountry.com getting ideas of what the different type of used cars list for in your price range. It's definitely worth taking your time meeting different people locally first and have them show you their cars in person at the periodic meet-ups. Good Luck.

[CHRIS DAMSCH]

Here is a link to ERA's website that has a good comparison of some of the different profiles.

Compare car profiles

[Three Peaks]

Originally Posted by diverrick

Thanks for all the great info. I have narrowed down some of the questions. My price range will be around 40K It would prefer SB100 qualified, or capable of getting it.
I think I want to go with an already built car or close, like the Lone star combo.
I don't want one built on a mustang frame, but would like to have a built frame.
As for accuracy, of course closer to original is better, but not a show stopper. At this point in my learning curve, I don't see all the finer differences. I'll need to learn alot more about all the differences and what they mean.
I am looking for a driver, parade, show kinda car. Might try it out over in Sonoma a few times just to see what it is like.
Sorry if I made duplicate threads. Maybe I should go back and try to delete the others.

It is obvious you are really just beginning to research the different Cobras from your statement above "I don't want one built on a mustang frame". No reputable manufacturer builds a Cobra kit on a Mustang frame, or any other frame as far as I know. They all have their own frame design to fit their body and drive train.
The round tube frames are more original such as the Factory Five, Contemporary, Kirkham, High Tech, Premier Motorsports, and a few others. Most of the other manufacturers are rectangular frames with varying methods of attaching the bodies. The best of these style are probably the Superformance, as they are factory built and the body is bonded to the chassis to make a very rigid assembly. Due to this design, these types tend to be a bit heavier than the round tube design with the "bird cage" design where the strength is in the chassis and the body is supported by the cage but isn't structural.

For your purposes either will suffice, but your budget will dictate you stay with the less expensive kits so eliminate the ERA, Kirkham, Superformance, and a few others.
Then, decide if you want reliability as a priority, or outright raw horsepower. If it is just to be a cruiser/show car, a reliable small block with lots of bling will probably be your thing. Still plenty of power to scare the pants off you, but tame enough to drive and enjoy every day if the weather cooperates and will get plenty of attention.

Do you want a live axle or IRS for a softer ride? What kind of horsepower limits are you looking at as this will determine some of the other parts of the drive train.

Keep in mind the lower priced models are almost all kits as opposed to "rollers", so the quality of the builds will vary depending entirely on the builder. You should seek out someone who knows Cobras and have him point out the good and the bad of the builds so you know what to look for.

IMHO, for your budget, you would have a hard time going wrong with a Factory Five, Hurricane, Unique, or an older Contemporary Classic (out of business but still good support for them through Mickmate here on the forum), or a few others.

Good luck in your search, but keep in mind you won't find what you are looking for asking questions here on the forum until you get out and get some hands-on experience looking at some different Cobras.

Bob

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

It is obvious you are really just beginning to research the different Cobras from your statement above "I don't want one built on a mustang frame". No reputable manufacturer builds a Cobra kit on a Mustang frame, or any other frame as far as I know.

Even the disreputable builders don't use a "Mustang frame", in fact even Ford doesn't use a "Mustang frame" as they are and always have been unibody cars without a separate frame! Drives me nuts every time I see a Mustang restoration advertised as "frame off"!!!!!!

[diverrick]

Thanks all. Learning is occuring. I need to find some guys in my neck of the woods and start hanging out with them, and getting up to speed.
I loved the side shots of all the different models, to show the differences. Some are hard to tell aprt, but other clearly looked different.

[Texasdoc]

FYI, lonestar has not gone out of business. They are in the middle of an ownership change. Brian is still there and is a part owner. They are continuing to build cobras but are also concentrating most of their current efforts on another project. I don't know if I'm at liberty to discuss it, tho. However, they tell me they will continue to build and support the lonestar congrats.

They have been having problems with their website of late. Viruses, a server change, and attention to their other project (apathy?) has caused their website to be down fir most of the last few months.

Personally,I am happy with my Lonestar. It is definitely not a cookie-cutter approach. You get the kit and build it your way. There is not a 300 page manual on how to assemble it. Plus, the extra 4 inches in the cockpit help my 6'2" ride comfortably.

I'd you are building your own and like to figure it out, consider Lonestar. If you are just buying one, any will do.

[decooney]

Originally Posted by diverrick

Thanks all. Learning is occuring. I need to find some guys in my neck of the woods and start hanging out with them, and getting up to speed.
I loved the side shots of all the different models, to show the differences. Some are hard to tell aprt, but other clearly looked different.

If you give yourself time to learn and study with patience, you can actually get to a point where you develop a trained eye, and can actually see the differences in ALL of the side shots on every car pictured there on the ERA site. I can even see a difference in the shot of the ERA on the ERA site as compared to my own ERA 427. To me, that side shot is not a good one of an ERA, looks kind of odd to me. And, the shapes of some of the different car makers have changed over the past decade too. Some of those side photos are old from what I see.

[Dwight]

I build my Lone Star in 2000-2002. I have 38,000 mile on it and enjoy it. I like the extra 4" inside the cockpit.

I have worked on several FFRs, E-Ms, Uniques, Shell Valleys, one Hurricane, one Shamrock and one B&B.

All have their plus and minus. I could own and drive any of them.
You can take the cheapest kit and spend the money on it to make it look as good as any.

Take your time and sit / ride or drive at least a couple of different Cobras. But I think you can buy the first one you see and enjoy it.

Some are small block cruises others are mega hp street monsters. A lot depends on your personality, what you want out of a Cobra.

One of our buddies with a B&B had me the change the motor to a 530 hp ground pounder but drives like a grandmother. ??? He like the sound of the motor and side pipes. He said a Cobra should sound like that. And he drives it every day it does not rain. Put 5,000 miles on it in the first ten months.

Others have stock 302s but clean, neat, well detailed drivers.

Another has a 620 hp FE That shut down a car show till he get parked.

Others buy a Cobra then after a year or so they sell. They found out it was not the car for them.

Mine, loud, fast small block that gets 19-21 mpg that I drive a lot.

One of our buddies bought a FFR that looked like it had been paint in someone's back yard on a windy day. The engine looked like it came out of a Mustang with 300,000 miles on it and not cleaned up before install into the Cobra. Jack bought it and drove it the first month to south Florida. The next spring he drove it almost to Canada and then back to Tenn hitting four or five states on the return trip. He always parked it out side and never covered it. HE ENJOYED that car.

Some buy the best looking Cobra with the most expensive parts and it sits in the garage but they enjoy it!

Keep looking you find a Cobra for you.

Dwight

[diverrick]

Deleted post

[fordracing65]

I think mrmustang on here has a book or video on how to buy a kit car, probably a pretty good read...

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

I think mrmustang on here has a book or video on how to buy a kit car, probably a pretty good read...

Not a book, just a simple guide, which someone else read here, then embellished and put in publication stating it was their own idea . Greed makes some people do bad things, I'll leave it at that.

Mine is always for free for the asking:

How to buy a used Cobra:

Editors Note:
Ok, the first thing you have to ask yourself is "how much money am I willing to spend for a used Cobra", and what my usage is going to be. Now, by usage, I mean a either a daily driver, weekend cruiser, show car/trailer queen, 1/4 mile drag racer, road racer, or any combination of the above. Once you have set your budget and have a pretty good idea of what you want to initially spend, your next goal is to find the right car for you. Whether your spending $22,000, or $150,000 should not matter at this point, as I've personally seen beautiful, well built cars at $22,000, and some truly horrible cars with over $100,000 in to the build.


Your qualifications:
Know your strengths and weaknesses when shopping for a used Cobra, if you know bodywork, and not the mechanicals, take along someone who has a greater mechanical ability than yourself. Vice versa if your strengths are in the mechanical end of things, and not the cosmetics. Two sets (or more) of eyes are always better than one.

If your going to see a cobra in person:

What to look for:
Fit: How does the body sit on the chassis, do the doors, hood, trunk all line up?

Finish: How is the paint, are there runs, drips, sags. Does the paint have a nice shine to it, or does it need to be buffed out or stripped and repainted?

Interior condition: Does the interior show a lot of aging, do the seats need to be recovered.

Mechanical: Are there any leaks or drips under the car? What about the overall appearance, does the car look like it was well taken care of, or does it look like it was ridden hard and abused.

Engine: Again, any leaks or fluid drips, how does it sound (this can be tough on a car such as the Cobra). Check the engine warm, cold, at partial throttle and at idle. Make sure to check the temperature gauge once the car is warmed up and at idle. Also check to make sure the thermostatically controlled fan (if so equipped) kicks in when it is supposed to.

Transmission: Take the car out for a road test if possible (don't expect to let the seller to allow you to drive it), does the clutch work properly, does the transmission shift smoothly through the gears. Check for leaks here as well.

Rear End: Does the rear end clunk, leak fluids (check behind rear rims for signs of fluid, along with the front and rear of the differential housing)

Suspension: Check the bushings, do they look cracked and worn out, if so, factor in replacements to your costs. What about the shocks (coil overs or ???), if you ask the seller to push down on each corner, watch the rebound, if they bounce forever, then expect to replace them. If the car is equipped with coil over shocks, set the car on an even surface and see if the car sits level or not. if so, then the shocks do not have to be adjusted, if not, then expect a few hours getting things right.

Brakes: If you place your hand on the front disks (do this before the car has been driven), can you feel any grooves in the disk itself? Does the brake pedal feel firm when your sitting in the car, what about on the test drive, ask the seller to do at least one hard braking maneuver so that you can tell whether the brakes are adjusted correctly for the car. Some cars will have a combination of disks and drums, others will have four wheel disk brakes. If set up correctly, a disk/drum set up will work for all but the most extreme usage (IE: heavy road racing, endurance racing, etc).

Wheels: Are the wheels balanced, bolted on, or held on with knock off's? Bolt on wheels are a matter of personal preference, if you like what is on the car, great, if not, factor in a replacement some time down the road. Knock off's should be checked to make sure they are tight, if the knock offs and safety wired on the car, that shows a level of attention worthy of a good owner/seller....

Tires: Are the sidewalls cracked, are the DOT approved, radials or biased ply? What about the sizing, do the fronts both match? What about the rears?

Electrical system: Do all of the lights function, hi beams, lo beams, turn signals, brake lights, horn, etc? What about all of the gauges, do they read correctly?

If your buying a Cobra sight unseen:

Use the above as a reference guide as to what questions need to be asked. If the owner is forthcoming with detailed answers, then you can feel a little more comfortable in dealing with them. if the answers are a little more ambiguous and vague, then perhaps the owners is trying to hide something, or does not really have any mechanical ability or qualifications to answer the questions above..If this is the case, and your still interested in the car, pay to have the car professionally looked at by a qualified inspection service.

In closing, most of the above is all based on common sense. Don't let your emotions get involved in the decision whether to purchase one car or another. Also don't let other so called "experts" sway you to this brand or that, after all, it's your money, not theirs that your planning to spend..Finally, if you need assistance, or don't understand something fully, feel free to ask questions.


I do hope the OP finds it helpful.


Bill S.