Used Superformance or New Backdraft from Vintage

[AL427SBF]

If you're not hung up on Ford then an LS7 in a BDR would be VERY SWEET. Ample room for growth with that 427 SBC which already produces great power.

505 horsepower @ 6200 rpm
475 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4800 rpm
7000-rpm redline
Read more: LS7: The Largest, Most Powerful Small-Block Ever Built

Make a simple cam change and you have 680 hp and corresponding torque. BDR + LS7 = 1 high tech screamer.

Good luck, I'm sure whatever you decide will work out fine, test driving each is a wise decision.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

If you're not hung up on Ford then an LS7 in a BDR would be VERY SWEET. Ample room for growth with that 427 SBC which already produces great power.

505 horsepower @ 6200 rpm
475 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4800 rpm
7000-rpm redline
Read more: LS7: The Largest, Most Powerful Small-Block Ever Built

Make a simple cam change and you have 680 hp and corresponding torque. BDR + LS7 = 1 high tech screamer.

Good luck, I'm sure whatever you decide will work out fine, test driving each is a wise decision.

Ahem...

So what "simple cam change" adds 175 hp?

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by blykins

Ahem...

So what "simple cam change" adds 175 hp?

Talk to scottj, I'm just the messenger

Post #13
Ford engine cobra vs. Chevy engine cobra- race for bragging rights?

"Very true... crate LS7 with only a cam swap and tune making 682 hp. Turns 7400 rpm, will lug down the highway at 1500, and get 20 mpg city/hwy. For $895 Reher & Morrison CNC head porting adds another 45-50 hp..."

[blykins]

Yeah, not buying it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

Yeah, not buying it.

You gotta stop being so cynical. "You" could also lose 40lbs in 4 weeks. At least that's what the TV commercial says.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by blykins

Yeah, not buying it.

My limited experience has been that the LS7 in a C6 Z06 makes a solid 540-590 RWHP on 93 octane with ported heads, a cam swap, and a ported intake. Not really sure how all that translates in a cobra drivetrain but that about all I know about them.....besides the fact I wouldn't mind owning one.

Originally Posted by mnm99

My calculations were $35900 car plus tax = 39800
Trans= 4000
Motor= 6000
Me doing all the work.. This is all on the bare minimum...

Oh okay that makes sense. Wasn't doubting you just running the numbers. Thanks

[blykins]

Yes sir, I could see that with worked heads, a cam change, and other work. However, pulling a 520 hp engine out of the crate, just changing cams, and getting 675 hp is not logical, especially when they peak at over 6000 to begin with.

[MEATMASTER]

Brent, The smaller diameter cam makes the engine rev faster. You should know that by now!

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by blykins

Yes sir, I could see that with worked heads, a cam change, and other work. However, pulling a 520 hp engine out of the crate, just changing cams, and getting 675 hp is not logical, especially when they peak at over 6000 to begin with.

Have a few friends with them they are some steam rollers for sure. I think those guys go to the 440 stroker setups and potentially a bit larger and see 620-640rwhp on E85. Anything I'm saying is based off a few friends that have them and then the millions of youtube dyno videos that exist. What a great motor but It would never find its way into a cobra of mine.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by Ace23

Have a few friends with them they are some steam rollers for sure. I think those guys go to the 440 stroker setups and potentially a bit larger and see 620-640rwhp on E85. Anything I'm saying is based off a few friends that have them and then the millions of youtube dyno videos that exist. What a great motor but It would never find its way into a cobra of mine.

Hi, Ace, I want to thank you for entertaining me and others who have followed your thread(s). You have certainly pumped new blood into an older, stubborn car group.

DO NOT BUY A COBRA. Yes, I typed it. You are not a Cobra guy. And it is okay. There will be other cars on your bucket list. It is okay to be honest and look in the mirror, " Do I really need a Cobra in my life?"

You will thank me in 6 months. Save yourself the stress, frustration. Don't be trapped. This Cobra car and life will lead you to drinking, sleepless nights. Think about your family & friends that you have spent time away. It will only get worse in ownership.

I will set you straight about engine choice. The Cobra should have a carb engine.

The coyote engine is a great engine but that belongs in a Mustang. All Cobras should have a carb engine that sounds like a John Deere tractor. It is the lumpy sound you desire.

It is a car you need to know how to fix, either at home or on the road when the car breaks down and it will break down. They all break down because they are simple cars- no fancy modern gizmos- but at the same time, they are simple cars to fix on your own. A hammer, screwdriver, and duct tape will fix any broken down Cobra. Dont have a heart attack when an "expert" Cobra mechanic hands you a $500 bill for a job he fixed in two minutes turning a screw on your engine.

Again, save yourself from Cobra stress.

Heck, wait til the end of the year and you can get a used C7 stingray for $50K. You will have modern luxuries like GPS, bluetooth, airbags, cupholders, AC, and if you want to go roadster, the roof comes off! You can have it all in a Stingray!

Good luck, Ace. I know you will make the right decision.

best,
nyg

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

- DO NOT BUY A COBRA.

- All Cobras should have a carb engine that sounds like a John Deere tractor. It is the lumpy sound you desire.

- They all break down because they are simple cars- no fancy modern gizmos- but at the same time, they are simple cars to fix on your own.

- A hammer, screwdriver, and duct tape will fix any broken down Cobra.

- Heck, wait til the end of the year and you can get a used C7 stingray for $50K. You will have modern luxuries like GPS, bluetooth, airbags, cupholders, AC, and if you want to go roadster, the roof comes off! You can have it all in a Stingray!

best,
nyg

These are all astute comments, advice, observations and statements.

1. You definitely want your Cobra to sound like a John Deere tractor. I've been attempting to get that lawn mower/tractor sound for years w/o much success.

2. Yes, Cobras break down because they're simple cars. Simple cars break down just like complex cars do.

3. Hammers, screwdrivers and duct tape are the primary tools in my tool box for fixing my Cobra. They work extremely well when you have to change spark plugs, fix a flat tire, alignments, changing oil & filters, finding TDC, vacuum leaks and exhaust leaks, etc. They even work great when you want to change manifolds, cams, heads, etc.

4. And buying a new or newer GM product is a very prudent move. GM is building high quality cars & trucks, which are rapidly moving up in the JD Power surveys. You rarely, if ever, hear much about recalls either.

This is good stuff. Thanks.

[itstock]

Speaking of the ls7, my old mans 08z just dropped a valve which resulted in a rod through the block. 100 percent stock and never tracked. 6 months out of warranty, and a known problem with the ls7. GM says too bad so far.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by itstock

Speaking of the ls7, my old mans 08z just dropped a valve which resulted in a rod through the block. 100 percent stock and never tracked. 6 months out of warranty, and a known problem with the ls7. GM says too bad so far.

Yes the have some serious valve issues while others never have a problem. I think this is an OEM problem. Most guys spend $3500 or whatever it is and get the head issue resolved. Sorry to hear about your dads luck

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by Dimis

ACE,

Back to your SPF vs BDR - Specifically SBF vs BBF vs Coyote (that thread got shut down before I could play ).

Test driving each wont tell you everything with regard engine choice.
Just be mindful that something as subtle as tyres, or even the final gear ratio will make the "seat of the pants feel" very different, and incorrectly confirm a hypothesis or generalization.

Like I said earlier from what you have described, I get the impression that you aren't interested in ripping VC off, or tinkering with valves, or carbs or other, etc... So If I was in your position I would lean towards a BDR from Vintage with the COYOTE engine

As for your concern on how they sound... they all sound great

I dare say engine identification via sound, is a bit of a wank... 99.99% of the world's population wouldn't have a clue... and those that do, are most likely to be connoisseurs. They are likely to know your BDR aint a CSX3xxx, and are probably rev heads enough to be impressed you successfully fitted a new OEM motor in your new BDR.

Nothing against the SPF... but I see a BDR with a COYOTE in your future.

Again, this is just my take on you from your posts
Enjoy the hunt, its part of the fun.


PS: I wouldn't worry about the potential $$ lost either, the price rise will buffer that and the $10-$15k losses mentioned earlier on this thread are over many years. Just sayin'

I hope to get to look over a Vintage motorsports coyote equipped car that was build last year in the next week or so. This will be right off the heels of spending a bit more time around a SPF with a 427 in it. Lots to think about but that's why I'm going to make the trip. I like the "thought of the coyote" but I will truly know how I feel about it when I hear and see it fire up and just the overall look of the BDR. I will say the SPF so do seem to be built like dump trucks with all those picture of guys going off roading in them and putting 100K+ miles on them. Not saying a BDR isn't a longterm ride just have not come across any of the same information but there are a lot less of them as well. You did get the part right about me not liking to work on stuff but that's just something I would accept with a Cobra

Originally Posted by Kobura

I admit that I haven't read this thread closely, but one of the arguing points seems to be the relative resale values of a BDR versus SPF. It makes sense that the SPF would warrant a higher asking price on the used Cobra market than a BDR because of the initial purchase price differential. But, I think that a Vintage BDR has an extra cache because of the true artistry that Brian performs with his engine installations. Under the hood, the Vintage BDRs are works of art. All of the wiring, hoses, and mechanical appendages of the engine are perfectly arranged, embellished with taste, and carefully installed. I look at my engine compartment with as much joy as the rest of the car. Therefore, I think that a used Vintage BDR would be worth more than a non-Vintage BDR which, in my case, is entirely academic as I am never going to sell mine.

I will get back to you in a week or so on this. From the pictures I've seen they look like a great install and shop. I still can't get over why BDR leaves the inside of the cars white and does not spray them.....that part I didn't notice but think it looks like S***. I know Vintage appears to try and help out with the polished aluminum to dress it up but that's just something that I noticed.

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Hi, Ace, I want to thank you for entertaining me and others who have followed your thread(s). You have certainly pumped new blood into an older, stubborn car group.

DO NOT BUY A COBRA. Yes, I typed it. You are not a Cobra guy. And it is okay. There will be other cars on your bucket list. It is okay to be honest and look in the mirror, " Do I really need a Cobra in my life?"

You will thank me in 6 months. Save yourself the stress, frustration. Don't be trapped. This Cobra car and life will lead you to drinking, sleepless nights. Think about your family & friends that you have spent time away. It will only get worse in ownership.

I will set you straight about engine choice. The Cobra should have a carb engine.

The coyote engine is a great engine but that belongs in a Mustang. All Cobras should have a carb engine that sounds like a John Deere tractor. It is the lumpy sound you desire.

It is a car you need to know how to fix, either at home or on the road when the car breaks down and it will break down. They all break down because they are simple cars- no fancy modern gizmos- but at the same time, they are simple cars to fix on your own. A hammer, screwdriver, and duct tape will fix any broken down Cobra. Dont have a heart attack when an "expert" Cobra mechanic hands you a $500 bill for a job he fixed in two minutes turning a screw on your engine.

Again, save yourself from Cobra stress.

Heck, wait til the end of the year and you can get a used C7 stingray for $50K. You will have modern luxuries like GPS, bluetooth, airbags, cupholders, AC, and if you want to go roadster, the roof comes off! You can have it all in a Stingray!

Good luck, Ace. I know you will make the right decision.

best,
nyg

I plan on keeping my 03 terminator a few months into Cobra ownership incase I need to "bow out" gracefully. I've loved muscle era cars since about 1993when I was 10 That statement means I love the look and sound but have no idea about maintaining. I'm no stranger to a wrench though and I just have to think that if the thousands of guys before me growing up in the 70's could maintain them then I can do the same or at least give it a try. One of the many great aspects of the cobra that appeals to me is unless you do a crazy optioned out new build you don't get slammed on depreciation.....or atleast it appears that way. The C7 is a car someone should be proud to own but I'm not the least bit interested. The only modern corvette I would own would be a C6 Z06 and even those should drop like a rock when the new C7 gets released. I cant get over the rearend on the new C7.....so toyish looking. New cars are great for technology, mpg and reliability. I think new cars absolutely suck when it comes to having soul......I'm probably completely wrong about this because I'm not 16 and growing up with these cars but who in the hell is going to want a C7 stingray in 30 years. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to restore or touch these things with all the plastic they are made of and the thousands of magnetic controls and sensors that they are built with. These cars today are like TV's....manufacturers constantly upgrading and you use them up and throw them away.....except they cost 70K. Just my take but my 03 cobra is like a dinosaur to these new cars and it still has enough electronics on it and stuff that could go wrong. When you buy a new sports car today it should have a disclaimer that says "TREAT THIS CAR LIKE A GIRLFRIEND.....THERE IS NO COMMITMENT IT WILL BE FUN FOR 3 YEARS THEN YOU WILL PART WAYS UNEXPECTEDLY AND IT WILL TAKE 50% OF WHAT YOU HAVE IN IT BUT YOU WILL MISS IT EVERYTIME YOU SEE IT AROUND TOWN" now please sign here and acknowledge your acceptance of this

[blykins]

I have limited experience with them. Built a 402 inch LS2 that made a touch over 500 hp at the tires. It was done by 6100-6200 and the guy uses it to autocross. I have respect for the LS stuff, but I'm just not a Chevy fan in general.

[Dimis]

ACE,

Back to your SPF vs BDR - Specifically SBF vs BBF vs Coyote (that thread got shut down before I could play ).

Test driving each wont tell you everything with regard engine choice.
Just be mindful that something as subtle as tyres, or even the final gear ratio will make the "seat of the pants feel" very different, and incorrectly confirm a hypothesis or generalization.

Like I said earlier from what you have described, I get the impression that you aren't interested in ripping VC off, or tinkering with valves, or carbs or other, etc... So If I was in your position I would lean towards a BDR from Vintage with the COYOTE engine

As for your concern on how they sound... they all sound great

I dare say engine identification via sound, is a bit of a wank... 99.99% of the world's population wouldn't have a clue... and those that do, are most likely to be connoisseurs. They are likely to know your BDR aint a CSX3xxx, and are probably rev heads enough to be impressed you successfully fitted a new OEM motor in your new BDR.

Nothing against the SPF... but I see a BDR with a COYOTE in your future.

Again, this is just my take on you from your posts
Enjoy the hunt, its part of the fun.


PS: I wouldn't worry about the potential $$ lost either, the price rise will buffer that and the $10-$15k losses mentioned earlier on this thread are over many years. Just sayin'

[madmaxx]

don't worry about the price, find what you like and we can make the payments work....

[Kobura]

I admit that I haven't read this thread closely, but one of the arguing points seems to be the relative resale values of a BDR versus SPF. It makes sense that the SPF would warrant a higher asking price on the used Cobra market than a BDR because of the initial purchase price differential. But, I think that a Vintage BDR has an extra cache because of the true artistry that Brian performs with his engine installations. Under the hood, the Vintage BDRs are works of art. All of the wiring, hoses, and mechanical appendages of the engine are perfectly arranged, embellished with taste, and carefully installed. I look at my engine compartment with as much joy as the rest of the car. Therefore, I think that a used Vintage BDR would be worth more than a non-Vintage BDR which, in my case, is entirely academic as I am never going to sell mine.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Kobura

I admit that I haven't read this thread closely, but one of the arguing points seems to be the relative resale values of a BDR versus SPF. It makes sense that the SPF would warrant a higher asking price on the used Cobra market than a BDR because of the initial purchase price differential. But, I think that a Vintage BDR has an extra cache because of the true artistry that Brian performs with his engine installations. Under the hood, the Vintage BDRs are works of art. All of the wiring, hoses, and mechanical appendages of the engine are perfectly arranged, embellished with taste, and carefully installed. I look at my engine compartment with as much joy as the rest of the car. Therefore, I think that a used Vintage BDR would be worth more than a non-Vintage BDR which, in my case, is entirely academic as I am never going to sell mine.

This is exactly my point, which I made earlier. A happy Vintage customer occasionally/frequently posts here on CC. Honestly, I rarely see posts like this one with SPF dealers. Now, maybe I've missed a few somewhere along the line.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by Kobura

I admit that I haven't read this thread closely, but one of the arguing points seems to be the relative resale values of a BDR versus SPF. It makes sense that the SPF would warrant a higher asking price on the used Cobra market than a BDR because of the initial purchase price differential. But, I think that a Vintage BDR has an extra cache because of the true artistry that Brian performs with his engine installations. Under the hood, the Vintage BDRs are works of art. All of the wiring, hoses, and mechanical appendages of the engine are perfectly arranged, embellished with taste, and carefully installed. I look at my engine compartment with as much joy as the rest of the car. Therefore, I think that a used Vintage BDR would be worth more than a non-Vintage BDR which, in my case, is entirely academic as I am never going to sell mine.

Oh I hope Brian's head still fits through the door on Monday

It's a craft, everyday I catch his new approach on what many would consider the same install. I hope someone can make it out to Carlisle this weekend and post a pic of his latest creation.