Chevy in a Cobra

[AL427SBF]

Thanks Bruce, sounds like a great time and a memory all of us wish we had.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

...
Also thank for finally and unequivocally establishing BB superiority for all to see. I lost count of the number of SB your car passed. Next time some silly person asks that BB/SB question I now have video proof. Thanks. ; ) ...

Honestly Evan, seeing how we don't know how the cars finished, and that the footage shown was a practice session, I would say you are a tad overzealous in your conclusion eh?

BTW, I would expect in an Historics race that the 427s would fair better than the 289s, that is why the 427s were built in the 1st place.

But herein lies the rub. I trust you know who Bob Bondaurant is? A racing legend of these cars and with his own racing school. Well, if you do a little digging my "learned colleague", you will find that Bob was one of the first to say that the 351 Windsor made for a better balanced Cobra in racing. You should also "know", being the well read aficionado of cobras you claim to be, that when Shelby introduced their spec racing Cobra a few years back, it was a 427 body with a 351 Windsor in it. So either Mr. Bondaurant and the Shelby team are clueless on such matters, or you are - which is it?

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Thanks Bruce, sounds like a great time and a memory all of us wish we had.



Honestly Evan, seeing how we don't know how the cars finished, and that the footage shown was a practice session, I would say you are a tad overzealous in your conclusion eh?

BTW, I would expect in an Historics race that the 427s would fair better than the 289s, that is why the 427s were built in the 1st place.

But herein lies the rub. I trust you know who Bob Bondaurant is? A racing legend of these cars and with his own racing school. Well, if you do a little digging my "learned colleague", you will find that Bob was one of the first to say that the 351 Windsor made for a better balanced Cobra in racing. You should also "know", being the well read aficionado of cobras you claim to be, that when Shelby introduced their spec racing Cobra a few years back, it was a 427 body with a 351 Windsor in it. So either Mr. Bondaurant and the Shelby team are clueless on such matters, or you are - which is it?

Why would they use an FE based engine when they were trying to control costs. A Windsor is much cheaper to produce and in the case of a spec series they are not trying to produce the fastest car just equal cars at the lowest cost. You have to remember that this is all about the money not making the greatest race cars possible. Shelby's aluminum block is about 6k to start with, you could probably build a small block for close to that at volume. I don't have the numbers at my finger tips but suspect an aluminum FE is probably within 70 pounds of a big inch aluminum small block. You would have to be Lewis Hamilton to notice that difference in dynamic handling. I think they are all good, and it just comes down to what the owner wants in his car.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170

Why would they use an FE based engine when they were trying to control costs. A Windsor is much cheaper to produce and in the case of a spec series they are not trying to produce the fastest car just equal cars at the lowest cost. You have to remember that this is all about the money not making the greatest race cars possible. Shelby's aluminum block is about 6k to start with, you could probably build a small block for close to that at volume. I don't have the numbers at my finger tips but suspect an aluminum FE is probably within 70 pounds of a big inch aluminum small block. You would have to be Lewis Hamilton to notice that difference in dynamic handling. I think they are all good, and it just comes down to what the owner wants in his car.

Somewhere on this forum is another lively debate on the subject. I forget who said it, but another racer with much experience said in so many words the road course guys always ask what's under the hood with the winners and that's where you see SBFs. If you're into authenticity then go with the 427 SO. This particular individual mentioned a 3 man group including Bondaurant, I forget their club name, but they toured the US giving driving shows to the public because of their notoriety.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

I forget who said it, but another racer with much experience said in so many words the road course guys always ask what's under the hood with the winners and that's where you see SBFs. If you're into authenticity then go with the 427 SO.

Give it a rest. Your position is well-documented as Evan's position on the topic of "real vs. replica." It's boring and threads get closed.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Thanks Bruce, sounds like a great time and a memory all of us wish we had.



Honestly Evan, seeing how we don't know how the cars finished, and that the footage shown was a practice session, I would say you are a tad overzealous in your conclusion eh?

BTW, I would expect in an Historics race that the 427s would fair better than the 289s, that is why the 427s were built in the 1st place.

But herein lies the rub. I trust you know who Bob Bondaurant is? A racing legend of these cars and with his own racing school. Well, if you do a little digging my "learned colleague", you will find that Bob was one of the first to say that the 351 Windsor made for a better balanced Cobra in racing. You should also "know", being the well read aficionado of cobras you claim to be, that when Shelby introduced their spec racing Cobra a few years back, it was a 427 body with a 351 Windsor in it. So either Mr. Bondaurant and the Shelby team are clueless on such matters, or you are - which is it?

Rodknock: I fail to see why you are getting your panties in a bunch. AL427SBF makes some good points. This is a discussion no?

Bob Bondarawho?

The 427 was created to supersede the 289 in FIA competition. We all know what happened. However, the 427 chassis was superior in design to the 289 and it's power clearly eclipsed the 289. It ended up competing in the SCCA instead of the FIA and won 7 A production titles up through 1972 if I recall. Not bad not only in the number of titles but the fact that it collected them all the way up to 1972. Certainly acquits the 427 as a competent performer on road courses in the right hands. How it would have fair in the FIA on the longer Euro circuits is anyone's speculation.

It is rumored that Shelby wanted to go with a smaller block for the 427 but Ford wanted the 427SO front and center. We know who controlled the purse strings. No doubt that the bigger the block and rotating mass especially in those days meant more weight and effort to rev. I don't need to be an engine builder to appreciate basic physics.

But todays technology not only allows smaller engines to put out more power but bigger blocks to do so with less weight. But weight reduction and power always mean more $$$.

Yes, I am aware that the spec series Shelby's used 351's. Not sure if it was due to the expense factor as opposed to weight since the aluminum Shelby 427 was available and does not weigh much more but is substantially more expensive to build and repair. Blow a 351W and maybe you lost a $10,000.00 motor. Lose an aluminum 427 Shelby motor you lost anywhere between $30,000 to $35,000.00.

Both SB and BB have their pluses and minuses as with most things in life. I like them both. If I was doing an 289 Cobra it would be a 289 or 351. Right motor with plenty of power. In a 427 Cobra body, sorry but it just needs that BB. It just does, then everything is right with the universe.

[REAL 1]

Bruce: I just read your post after responding to AL. You are 100% correct. Bingo. I am now more convinced then ever I am usually right. Man I am good!!!

Thor: No class war here my friend. You are cool with me as long it remains what you want in your Cobra for your own reasons. Just don't try convincing us that Chebby's are the better or correct motor for Cobra replicas. That's where the train goes off the tracks.

BTW, I do like the Walmart Red light specials.

Cheers.