Considering a Cobra have some questions

[blykins]

They are press fit, and fire ring of head gasket seals at top.

[Detroit Bill]

Do you feel it was s more stable with the Avons?

[Bernica]

Much about this subject on this site.
The BB's have to warm up and loose their flat spots, then they are great. They are bias ply and will hunt on today's highways.
Avons are just a great more modern day tire in 15", and you won't find many that will disagree.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Do you feel it was s more stable with the Avons?

Bill, Avons are the best 15" tire we have, but regardless of the maker of the tires, if you have an FE in your Cobra, and you have a momentary loss of judgment and push the throttle down too far, too quickly, there is a better than even chance your car will be towed home. Hopefully, you'll get to go home with it... and not in a bag.

[Detroit Bill]

Wow Patrick, that's an ominous statement.

I can't easily find specs on the Avons. Can you point me there.

I'm back to thinking about 17 and Pilot sports or P zeros type tire.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Wow Patrick, that's an ominous statement.

Bill, Patrick is right for most of these cars. If you'll indulge me for a sec: The first time I took my car (BDR big block 500/500) out to actually drive it I had my youngest son (18 at the time) with me and we were cruising along a fairly quiet country road. We have lots of those around here, long, straight and flat roads. At any rate, whilst cruising we came upon a slow moving semi. I, not thinking, did what I'd normally do in my Saleen; bang a down shift and stomp it! WRONG move oh diseased yak breath! We were doing about 45 when I stomped it and immediately went sideways while crabbing past the semi. I pedaled it, gathered it back up and got around the truck all in about a half a second. My son (not knowing how close to death we both were) was over in the passenger seat laughing his anal orifice off. I had my seat firmly clinched in my anal orifice (we can't use those other words here on CC) and it was some time before I could get out of the car. Needless to say I learned my lesson. The second that you don't respect one of these cars they'll turn around and slap you.

Oh, what tire was I running at the time? Goodyear Eagle F1s in 315/35 17. They never had a chance with my ham-fisted driving that day.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

I, not thinking, did what I'd normally do in my Saleen; bang a down shift and stomp it! WRONG move oh diseased yak breath! We were doing about 45 when I stomped it and immediately went sideways while crabbing past the semi.

This is exactly what I was referring to above. It happened to me on a colder day when I had turned onto a state highway and was doing normal, non-spirited, acceleration from roughly 20 to 60 (the speed limit) and the shift from 3 to 4 the tires chirped a little, with a little skittle, and fortunately for me and my passenger, regained grip. The temp was in the high 50's on a grooved new concrete roadbed.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Wow Patrick, that's an ominous statement.

I can't easily find specs on the Avons. Can you point me there.

I'm back to thinking about 17 and Pilot sports or P zeros type tire.

Here's a decent thread on the Avon tires: Info on Avon tires

[Buzz]

My first car was a '74 Trans Am with a built 455 that would break the N50-15 Mickey Thompsons loose at 45mph just as easily. It plowed and understeered like a barge in hard corners but with too much throttle it would snap the rear around in the blink of an eye. I drove it for two winters on the icy roads of northern Alberta. THAT was a scary ride.

Anyone owning a Cobra should do what is often advised - take it and flog it in an empty lot somewhere so you can see how easily it breaks loose and what happens when it does. If your car is well set up, you should find that it is capable of smoking the tires and spinning on a dime all day long, but it will only do that if YOU make it.

It goes without saying that 500+ HP and torque in a small 2500lb car is going to be an E-ticket ride, but it isn't going to go off and create carnage all on it's own. It will if you forget you're not driving a Honda Civic and snap a downshift and stomp on it when you pull out to pass, or even if you decide to goose it hard in any of the first three gears.

If you're used to driving fast in a modern car with traction and stability controls, you definitely need to take a your new Cobra on a crash (no pun ) course in parking lot drifting before you go hunting Vettes on the open road.

[blykins]

Not all cars have that problem.

[blykins]

That's the best logic.

All cars have gas pedals....it's up to you how far to push it. You can tool around with 750 hp all day long without incident. When you get into the gas, anything over 250 hp is going to net in wheel spin, you just have to know how quick and far to push.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

You can tool around with 750 hp all day long without incident. When you get into the gas, anything over 250 hp is going to net in wheel spin, you just have to know how quick and far to push.

All true. But Bill, you have to also keep in mind that all of these cars are essentially "hand built." Some better than others. The short wheelbase makes the radius of the circle smaller, so you come around much quicker. A suspension that is not set up perfectly, corner weights that are off, limited slip packs that don't grab consistently (or no LSD at all) -- these are all issues that can stack up on you. And did you know that some Cobras have "exponential throttle linkage?" Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, once you get used to it. Some cars have bump steer (or even rear wheels that change their orientation under stress). But, you said you wanted something that would be exciting and that wasn't all that hard to "get close to the edge." Well, you can get close to the edge just pulling out of your residential subdivision. Really you should try and visit your local club and see if someone will at least take you for a ride, or even better, let you take one for a gentle spin. They're really a blast to drive... if they don't kill you in the process.

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by patrickt

All true. But Bill, you have to also keep in mind that all of these cars are essentially "hand built." Some better than others. The short wheelbase makes the radius of the circle smaller, so you come around much quicker. A suspension that is not set up perfectly, corner weights that are off, limited slip packs that don't grab consistently (or no LSD at all) -- these are all issues that can stack up on you. And did you know that some Cobras have "exponential throttle linkage?" Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, once you get used to it. Some cars have bump steer (or even rear wheels that change their orientation under stress). But, you said you wanted something that would be exciting and that wasn't all that hard to "get close to the edge." Well, you can get close to the edge just pulling out of your residential subdivision. Really you should try and visit your local club and see if someone will at least take you for a ride, or even better, let you take one for a gentle spin. They're really a blast to drive... if they don't kill you in the process.

As this progressed it became apparent to me that getting a ride from a club member would not be a bad idea. I am going to Las Vegas and Utah in Jan Feb so I may make some stops to check things out.

[Detroit Bill]

Funny a great time when I was younger was to take my big block SS Camaro with Pozzi out in a snow filled parking lot (with a pretty girl in the passenger seat) and do donuts. It is a party and teaches you to a degree how to steer out of a spin. I also had a go cart in my much much younger days that you could have an absolute party in the rain with. Spinning and drifting all over the place.

I would like to take my sons out to do some donuts in the snow but unfortunately that is near impossible to do in modern cars. I was thinking of taking him to Skip Barber racing school to help him learn those lessons in a "controlled" environment.

I might mention I did take a 5 day Skip Barber SCCA licence school at Laguna Seca so I get it.

With all that said my thinking is that Billboards look great but I would never drive on Bias Ply tires.
I would not build one of these cars not to drive it. I read up on the Avon's and they sound better but the website talks about and I paraphrase not to sticky for vintage cars". I will have to read into that further.

The Goodyear F1 mention earlier was interesting.

So as a point of interest, lets say you get a nice 650 hp FE under the hood. Are you ever able to go WOT? If so please describe when and the sensation?

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

So as a point of interest, lets say you get a nice 650 hp FE under the hood. Are you ever able to go WOT? If so please describe when and the sensation?

Let Bill Cosby explain it to you here: Bill Cosby Tells A Great Carroll Shelby Story

PS - If he winks at you and offers you a drink, you should politely decline.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Patty - if your car gets you close to the edge just pulling out of your residential subdivision, you may want to recheck those corner weights. (And consider adding a couple more roll bars)

Mine would do that early in the morning (in Colorado when even in the summer sunrise temps would hover in the high 50's). The turn out was a left turn onto a major state highway and while the speed limit was 45 most traffic was going 55-60.

Originally Posted by Buzz

Let Bill Cosby explain it to you here: Bill Cosby Tells A Great Carroll Shelby Story

PS - If he winks at you and offers you a drink, you should politely decline.

Cosby's 200MPH routine is a documentary. There's a lot of stretching the truth, but there is a lot of truth. The second owner of that car got killed driving it.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Mine would do that early in the morning (in Colorado when even in the summer sunrise temps would hover in the high 50's). The turn out was a left turn onto a major state highway and while the speed limit was 45 most traffic was going 55-60.

I only have about 500/500 at the flywheel in my Cobra and while it will spin the tires all day long in 1st and 2nd on dry pavement - if I want it to - it is also very capable of brisk acceleration without any wheelspin at all. Even on damp pavement, i've driven the car long enough to know exactly what it will do with a given amount of throttle. Someone not familiar with it though could get into trouble easily enough by by being lead footed in a variety of situations. I still say it is a safe and enjoyable ride in any conditions when I want it to be docile. With all the torque, it pulls away from a stop smoothly and easily with barely any throttle input and shifts and rumbles down the road just as sweet as can be. Driven hard, it does exactly what is expected of it - no bad manners in straight line acceleration and when there's no other traffic I can slide the back end out for a bit of fun in turns with a high degree of predictability.

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Cosby's 200MPH routine is a documentary. There's a lot of stretching the truth, but there is a lot of truth. The second owner of that car got killed driving it.

Yes, the Supersnake story is well known - Cosby just embellishes it a little bit. I still say you should turn down the drink offer though

PS - Merry Christmas everybody!

[Buzz]

Patty - if your car gets you close to the edge just pulling out of your residential subdivision, you may want to recheck those corner weights. (And consider adding a couple more roll bars)

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Patty - if your car gets you close to the edge just pulling out of your residential subdivision, you may want to recheck those corner weights. (And consider adding a couple more roll bars)

Thank you, Buzz.. Bill, to answer your question, "No, you can never hit WOT in a Cobra on the street with 650HP for any time over an instant."
I have 475 honest, truthful, no BS, no dyno tricks, no fudging the numbers, horsepower at the flywheel. That almost makes me the "weak sister" around these parts. My suspension is as good as it gets, and set up carefully by pros. I have the best you can buy on that car, with the exception of the tires, which are Yokohama, not Avon. I can only hit WOT if I gently roll it on, and then only for a second or two -- not much. Doing that is not safe; not at all. You're an eye blink away from disaster.

Unless you're somebody like Morris (serious big time racing), big HP numbers are just for bragging rights and better smoke outs.

[66gtk]

I'll chime in here a little on this POWER thing. I'm no expert and I don't have a lot of experience, but I have had some practice behind the wheel of 2 well set up ERAs. One with a low riser (actually 390 heads) 427 sideoiler and one with a 390. Both were very fun and sounded great. Gobs of torque and very fun on the street. I felt safe and in control driving both but I know I was only at around 420 HP / 350 HP. Was that enough? Hell yes, it was enough power. I can't imagine needing more unless you are looking to kill yourself on the street or are interested in tracking your car at it's limit. (I agree with the comment about bragging rights) I never got WOT in either of the cars (too scared). I also never pushed them past 4200 RPM. That was enough to feel "on the edge" when on the streets for me. I never lost sight of the advice I received that these cars will try and kill you every time you get behind the wheel.

My late model Shelby has about 500 HP and it's a handful for me on the street. So quick and so fast. I know what the OP means by driving on the edge and being way too out there for speed. Seems nothing fun happens until you are going 100 MPH, and that doesn't take any effort at all! I much prefer driving a Cobra at a much safer speed and feeling the thrill of every shift, grunt of the exhaust, etc. You don't have to be going 100 MPH in a Cobra to get "turned on" like in a late model. To that end, I've convinced myself (even if the logic is faulty) that it's safer to drive a Cobra (over a late model super car) if you are looking for a visceral experience like no other.