Anybody lining up for the new Shelby Cobra?

[Bernica]

A most excellent response and clears a lot of things up. Thanks David.!

[Bernica]

You have to make money in any business or you don't get to play.

[rodneym]

Well, they do prep and paint, don't they?
Forget dollars, how much profit (in percentage) would you charge if you were Shelby? 10%? Yeah, right.
And getting a dead guy to sign an MSO is no easy task.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Well, they do prep and paint, don't they?

...

And getting a dead guy to sign an MSO is no easy task.

We have delivered both polished rollers and filed rollers to Shelby.

I personally knew Carroll Shelby pretty well. I also know many people who knew him well. I personally spoke with Carroll and dealt with him for many years.

I also know Joe Conway on a personal basis. He and I think very, very much alike. We have had long talks together. He is a constant improvement guy. It is in his DNA. I can't stress this enough. He is extremely dedicated to improving the Shelby brand and he understands high-quality parts are a bit more expensive. He has never once suggested we cut any corner--anywhere. On the contrary, he always wants to improve. He understands markets, metallurgy, brand, customers, vendors, etc. I quite enjoy working with them.

I would be damn proud to own a Joe Conway signed Shelby MSO. Joe cares.

David

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Well, they do prep and paint, don't they?
Forget dollars, how much profit (in percentage) would you charge if you were Shelby? 10%? Yeah, right.

A file finish Kirkham roller is $80K. A painted alloy Shelby is $160,000. A painted alloy 50th Anniversary Shelby is $180,000.

How much is prep and paint? $20K just for the sake of discussion? Well, whatever the final profit margin, there are buyers who feel the name is worth it and we all know that an alloy Kirkham Cobra or alloy Shelby Cobra are constructed by the best.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

A file finish Kirkham roller is $80K. A painted alloy Shelby is $160,000. A painted alloy 50th Anniversary Shelby is $180,000.

How much is prep and paint? $20K just for the sake of discussion? Well, whatever the final profit margin, there are buyers who feel the name is worth it and we all know that an alloy Kirkham Cobra or alloy Shelby Cobra are constructed by the best.

This old yarn?

My wife's Cartier engagement ring costs more.
Because it's worth more. Because it costs more. Because it's worth more., etc.
If you're a 'diamond district' guy, then you'll never get it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

This old yarn?

My wife's Cartier engagement ring costs more.
Because it's worth more. Because it costs more. Because it's worth more., etc.
If you're a 'diamond district' guy, then you'll never get it.

I'm a "diamond district guy," but then if I had all your money, then I'd burn all mine.

[RodKnock]

By the way, it would be awesome if David's post could be make a sticky, so we don't have to keep debating, discussing or even pontificating who does what on a Kirkham versus a Shelby.

[rodneym]

They keep printing it!
And don't worry about what's going on over at casa de Rodney.
Does the term "going for broke" mean anything to you?

[twobjshelbys]

Thanks David! That clears up alot (and as you said, it changes with time).

In my comment I wasn't thinking as much of frame and suspension parts as body panels. Of course it makes sense that some parts might be interchangeable, even if obtained from different places as they are, by design, second sources.

But can you or can you not take the body panels from one of your Kirkham cars and put them (without adjustments) onto a Shelby version (even if made by you?)

If so then we are making the differentiation between a Lincoln and Ford with same underpinnings and different skins.

Thanks!

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Thanks David! That clears up alot (and as you said, it changes with time).

In my comment I wasn't thinking as much of frame and suspension parts as body panels. Of course it makes sense that some parts might be interchangeable, even if obtained from different places as they are, by design, second sources.

But can you or can you not take the body panels from one of your Kirkham cars and put them (without adjustments) onto a Shelby version (even if made by you?)

If so then we are making the differentiation between a Lincoln and Ford with same underpinnings and different skins.

Thanks!

I understood your comment the same way. When things change over time and it can get confusing. Who knows, tomorrow we may be doing something totally different with Shelby.

The body panels between a Kirkham supplied Shelby and a Kirkham are identical. There is no difference (to us) between a polished, brushed, or filed body. They all start out the same. We just take the next frame and body in line and then file, brush, or polish it (according to whatever the customer wants).

Keep in mind our body panels do not come off the chassis. They body is riveted to the chassis. Another interesting note: Brushing a body is far harder than polishing a body.

David

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Another interesting note: Brushing a body is far harder than polishing a body.

David

Hmmm, why is that? I'd think that there is far more labor/hours involved in going from brush to polish. Just curious.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Hmmm, why is that? I'd think that there is far more labor/hours involved in going from brush to polish. Just curious.

When you brush a car the sanded lines all have to line up and be straight. What is straight on this body? Whenever you stop and start sanding (you have to stop and start sometime) you can always see the tell-tale marks. Remember, there are no fender breaks in the body--it is one, continuous body. It takes exceptional skill to make a brushed car look beautiful. When done properly, they are indeed stunning.

Pat Buckley was the first guy to take one of our machines and make it really nice as a brushed car. It really opened our eyes as to what could be accomplished. He dramatically raised the bar.

Well, the goal posts are ever moving in this game. It wasn't long before a brushed car with brushed "ghost" stripes became a brushed car with polished stripes. One day one of our employees (who now works for Furniture Row Racing) got crazy and said, "Brushed with polished stripes? Why not polished with brushed stripes?" I laughed. Then he did it. It is pretty much how our rides have been known ever since.

David

[Dimis]

I'm torn... so thinking out loud.

Even ignoring the price issue...

If I'm to believe what I've read, then Shelby (via Joe - Good on him!) are finally trying to "catch up" to Kirkham in terms of what they offer.
Parts of me hope they do.

But no matter what they do (short of buying out Kirkham I guess), they can only ever be a rebadged/branded car of equal, or lesser quality (be it from Kirkham or other). No? Or is this disputable?

Clearly I'm missing something....

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Dimis

I'm torn... so thinking out loud.

Even ignoring the price issue...

If I'm to believe what I've read, then Shelby (via Joe - Good on him!) are finally trying to "catch up" to Kirkham in terms of what they offer.
Parts of me hope they do.

But no matter what they do (short of buying out Kirkham I guess), they can only ever be a rebadged/branded car of equal, or lesser quality (be it from Kirkham or other). No? Or is this disputable?

Clearly I'm missing something....

Shelby clearly has one of the most successful brands in the world. Even so, Joe has taken a successful brand and made it even better. That is an extraordinary accomplishment. Many, many people are far more adept at destroying well-known brands than improving them. Joe and Keith have a move forward attitude and it is spreading through Shelby quickly.

Joe Feliciano at DenBeste Motorsports (Shelby Engines) has taught us quite a bit. He is a fabulous engine builder with a ton of insight and experience. Bill DenBeste has taught me quite a bit personally as well on a business level. I wouldn't mind "catching" either company.

David

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Dimis

I'm torn... so thinking out loud.

Even ignoring the price issue...

I'm to believe what I've read, then Shelby (via Joe - Good on him!) are finally trying to "catch up" to Kirkham in terms of what they offer.
Parts of me hope they do.

But no matter what they do (short of buying out Kirkham I guess), they can only ever be a rebadged/branded car of equal, or lesser quality (be it from Kirkham or other). No? Or is this disputable?

Clearly I'm missing something....

Hi Dimis - put these same thoughts into the context of the relationship between AC and Shelby back in the sixties. AC Cobras and Shelby Cobras. Do you think there's a relevant parallel?

[Dimis]

David - thanks for taking the time to post.

Originally Posted by Buzz

Hi Dimis - put these same thoughts into the context of the relationship between AC and Shelby back in the sixties. AC Cobras and Shelby Cobras. Do you think there's a relevant parallel?

Buzz - I'm not sure it matters
But its a fair question that deserves an answer.

For the sake of argument, the AC in-line 6 2Litre engine, was NOT Shelby's "improved" Ford V8 engine, and it was this change in recipe which "we" admire, love and hope to replicate.

There's a line between taking ingredients, mixing them to bake/improve your cake, vs what seemingly is hopping down to the bakery, buying a cake and swapping the wrapping.

Or is that thought out of line?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Hi Dimis - put these same thoughts into the context of the relationship between AC and Shelby back in the sixties. AC Cobras and Shelby Cobras. Do you think there's a relevant parallel?

It's a direct parallel.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

It's a direct parallel.

I'm interested how so?
Objectively please, not self-servingly please...

[4pipes]

"Pat Buckley was the first guy to take one of our machines and make it really nice as da brushed car. It really opened our eyes as to what could be accomplished. He dramatically raised the bar."

Sure did.