Dan and Daves visit to Alloycars

[Maricopa]

So Kirkham made that perky butt body?? Wow...

I thought it was established back in the early discussion that their completed car is this car.

[CobraDan]

I'm having a really bad day with all the power outages today. I have not been able to get to the second page on this thread on my computer & before jumping on my wife's computer I find we are on page 3. PLEASE give me time to look into & solve all your concerns & I will post the truth.

[CobraDan]

Well, I'm back on my computer & I still can't get to the second page but it allows me access to the third page. I did get this off page 2 & I think I have your answer.

Glad to see it's not all Vaporware, but I still gotta wonder, where are the pictures of those 150 cars and why didn't they use them instead of swiping pics of Kirkhams and FFRs?

You can find all answers in the company history here, with pictures:

Untitled Page

[twobjshelbys]

I'm also still confused about the picture of the warehouse filled with Cobra bodies. Did you see that and what are they?

[RodKnock]

I see a comment now, on their website, that states Alloycars discontinued their Cobra in 2008 because it didn't have a future in the US market.

I also see maybe one finished car in all those pics at a small exhibition in the Year 2000?

Seriously, I feel someone is being "hoodwinked" here, but I'm not sure who. BTW, and FWIW, being a member of a couple large Porsche forums, though not 550 replica specific, there's but scant info available on the Alloycars Porsche 550 Spyder replica.

I'll take a wait and see approach.

[Maricopa]

So you're saying that they made that body entirely and it's not the same vehicle? I see there seems to be some small pads under the turn signals that a K-body would not have so this may well be something they made. Still a lot of BSs flew from ACs. Caveat Emptor.

Here's a (crappy) vid of the K/FFR car from several years ago. Seems it was on eBay in 2010.
http://rbutton.com/images/FFR_Aluminum.wmv

Edit: No one is out to create 'grief' Dan, we're skeptical but I'm willing to be proven wrong. These folks have set this up themselves with their earlier deceit (the swiped pics), lousy attitude and psychotic posts. I'm glad you're sold though, look forward to seeing your AC car.

[1985 CCX]

Not adding fuel to this fire.
But.....
After a brief conversation with them it is clear that they are merely making aluminum versions of bodies of any replica. In this case a FFR car.
They said they basically use a buck, the replica body in hand, to make the body so it will fit the car originally as intended.
So if you have a FFR you could buy a body that fit.
If you have a CCX it to would look like a CCX.
ERA and so on.

Their fit in the market is making a body to fit you replica manufacturer.
So if you desire a alloy body, have a frame to hold it they will make it duplicating your original body.

Now as to number made I can't say. Never saw one.

[AL427SBF]

Dan, you gave it your best shot, been there and done that. Many appreciate what you have shared here today, thanks for taking the time.
Buzz, nothing has changed but commend you for trying ... "I did some searching about and there is a lot of positive being said about Ingo Poth and the Porsche replicas. Somehow I don't think that will make any difference to some of you - you've decided it's war and now validation of your position is all that matters."

Alloycars will succeed because the market is there and they have 100% of the in-house capability to do it, and want to do it. They are the only true USA supplier of aluminum cobra replicas, even SAI can't make that claim using Kirkham bodies. Alloycars is a high end coach builder and has been for years. The commentary here will have "0" impact on them moving forward, and they are moving forward in a big way which will become evident soon enough.
.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Dan, you gave it your best shot, been there and done that. Many appreciate what you have shared here today, thanks for taking the time.
Buzz, nothing has changed but commend you for trying ... "I did some searching about and there is a lot of positive being said about Ingo Poth and the Porsche replicas. Somehow I don't think that will make any difference to some of you - you've decided it's war and now validation of your position is all that matters."

Alloycars will succeed because the market is there and they have 100% of the in-house capability to do it, and want to do it. They are the only true USA supplier of aluminum cobra replicas, even SAI can't make that claim using Kirkham bodies. Alloycars is a high end coach builder and has been for years. The commentary here will have "0" impact on them moving forward, and they are moving forward in a big way which will become evident soon enough.
.

The bolded portion of your opinion is the only portion that may be true. The market may be there. I don't know what the market penetration would be for a $20K alloy body for the FFR's (or any fiberglass replica). The whole kit from FFR is $20K. But, hopefully, we'll find out.

Your commentary will have zero impact on them moving forward either. For me, your opinion is pure speculation at this point of a business that doesn't appear to have a customer as of yet. I found some obscure references to a possible customer or two for the Porsche 550 replica product, but it's not 100% clear that there are legitimate customers for these either. If there are customers, then they're unknown at this time. Certainly ZERO on the two Porsche forums that I'm a member of. Of course, PCA wouldn't allow them as a part of their site since you actually have to own an actual production Porsche to be a member.

As for 100% American, were a global economy, I betcha there's something non-USA that will be installed or built on their future Cobra. Personally, made in the USA is just doesn't have the same meaning it once did.

Honestly, for someone who just recently torched the site and one of the moderators, then said goodbye to CC, only to come back, doesn't get much respect in my book. Don't threaten the "nuclear option", unless you actually intend to follow through.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... then said goodbye to CC, only to come back, doesn't get much respect in my book ...

I never said it, please post the link to those words.
What I said was "back with the silent majority", indeed to watch in amusement, but I can come and go as I please. I also mentioned the lack of reading comprehension, you distinguish yourself as one on that list. Please do counter with some nonsensical interpretation of what I've said, getting it right has not been your strong suit but I do enjoy a good laugh now and then.
.

[CobraDan]

I want everyone to not start with doubt just give me the opportunity to tell my story as I have been here a long time & deserve that opportunity. I want not to be attach as was the Alloy team & yes that name calling that occurred should have never happened on any forum and if this thread goes south as the other 2 have, then I have not had my opportunity to try & resolve every issue you have.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

I never said it, please post the link to those words.
What I said was "back with the silent majority", indeed to watch in amusement, but I can come and go as I please. I also mentioned the lack of reading comprehension, you distinguish yourself as one on that list. Please do counter with some nonsensical interpretation of what I've said, getting it right has not been your strong suit but I do enjoy a good laugh now and then.
.

OK, done. Your Post #100 of thread "Alloycars are real":

"It's been an interesting experience, and not without some high points, but no longer an objective place to voice an opinion, so time to move on. For those who have been helpful to me I am indebted and appreciate the info you have shared."

"Go ahead Jamo, spin up some nonsense to save a little face, I'm already gone."



And then this from Jamo, who you insulted (which I won't post) at least twice:

"BTW, second posting by AL427SBF personally coming at me...and still no ban. Go figure."


"Time to move on"? "I'm already gone"? Seriously, how else would anyone interpret these words and actions? Puh-leeze, you "torched the village" and then decided to come back. When you deploy the "nuclear option" and then come back, at least in my book, respect is lost. Not a person of their word(s).

[G-Pete]

Mike are you saying you choose a FF5 over a Kirkham or a CS?

[twobjshelbys]

I know everyone wants to believe but...

We have yet to hear from a single satisfied customer.

If I were looking in this space I would welcome someone else to go first. We have a report from someone but don't think it was real, yes?

Let me ask it this way. Are there 10 owners willing to turn over cash to get an alloy rebody? 5? 2? 1?

Color me skeptical.

[LMH]

Maybe slightly off the subject but can an aluminum body be made using a donor fiberglass body as a buck? Wouldn't the AL body be too big?
Larry

[CobraDan]

Originally Posted by LMH

Maybe slightly off the subject but can an aluminum body be made using a donor fiberglass body as a buck? Wouldn't the AL body be too big?
Larry

Answer:

Yes, it will be too big and far off. You can’t use a fiberglass body as a buck. But you can make a heavy buck using the fiberglass body as a reference. The first problems you will encounter are the headlight rings. They will not match the chrome rings from the head lights. Just an example. It will also affect all the gaps and width of the car.

[CobraDan]

I hope I answered Larry's question & like I said just give me the chance. Right now my wife's son is in town & even though my wife thinks I live at CC we are headed out the door & my response time will slow way down until I get back. I can see now how a hot headed German (Ingo) trying to repair the problems that his friend TOM started did not go well. I just want everyone to know that I'm also German & when you guys start on me I have to bite my tongue. I want CC to be a help to all as it was when I signed on in 2001. I have seen this problem going on for a long time here at CC & I want things to change. I have met many people in person on this forum & we have been friends for a long time & I do not have a grievance for many but there are some that just have to snipe away as I have seen comments on other threads that have nothing to say about Alloycars but they have to post a negative post, PLEASE STOP. Ron Barsamian who still works as a lawyer does not have time to monitor every thread & I do not want to have him stop the guys who think every thread is a time to get funny. Again I ask you to PLEASE STOP.

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by CobraDan

Answer:

Yes, it will be too big and far off. You can’t use a fiberglass body as a buck. But you can make a heavy buck using the fiberglass body as a reference. The first problems you will encounter are the headlight rings. They will not match the chrome rings from the head lights. Just an example. It will also affect all the gaps and width of the car.

This is somewhat correct. Once again, the answer lies in the old thread where simple truths were dismissed as an attack.

The EASY way to make an alloy body buck would be to take a splash off an existing car and then cast a tool from that splash. You then use the cast tool to stretch form the panels. With stretch forming and assuming an alloy of .050" nominal thickness, your body would be larger by .100" in width at the areas of biggest difference. This does not take into account the high stretch areas such as headlight rings where the material would be thinner, or compressed areas where it would be thicker. When considering the inaccuracies of the FFR MKII body, being off by .100" is nothing, besides, just a slight bit of trimming and things get very close. Any minor issues that crop up, such as the light ring example, can be easily resolved with minimal massaging.

As I already stated on the other thread, the issue with this type of tooling is that it is only suitable for very short production runs and I don't believe for a second that they have invested the $$ necessary for durable tooling. If they had, it would be something any reasonable company would show off rather than hide (think Kirkham).

For those of you who have no sheet metal experience, trust a guy that has 35 years aviation structural experience when I say that there hasn't been a significant development in sheet metal forming since chem milling and hydro forming. Any claims to have some sort of secret new process is pure BS.

So where does that leave us? We have a company that is secretive, deceptive, combative, and is making something that many of us would love to have. I have no issue with them making simple copies of anyone's body, however, like the photos they took, I see a pattern of behavior such that they would never get a penny of mine.

[CobraDan]

Mike,
Again you doubt. I only have a fraction of the pictures that Dave took to my disposal to post but Ingo has a ton of his money in this project & his dies can make cobra bodies for my life time.

Two photos by Dave

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by CobraDan

Mike,
Again you doubt. I only have a fraction of the pictures that Dave took to my disposal to post but Ingo has a ton of his money in this project & his dies can make cobra bodies for my life time.

Two photos by Dave

Yes you are correct. Until I see a photo of metal dies I will have a difficult time believing they exist. Are you saying that you saw metal dies? I have read everyone's posts and have not seen anyone make that claim. Your own statement above says they will last your lifetime, but doesn't say they are metal.