Dipstick raises - Page 2

CHANMADD · #21 (**permalink**) 05-10-2015, 07:53 AM

I wonder if what I described as the pcv system was actually read by anyone!

Gaz64 · #22 (**permalink**) 05-10-2015, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHANMADD

The pcv system is a system on its own. The breather is the intake filter...pcv is the suction pump . The pcv must be large enough to allow sufficient airflow through the engine , without allowing the oil to bypass. If it persists you probably need rings....

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHANMADD

I wonder if what I described as the pcv system was actually read by anyone!

Correct up to a point.

Blowby at part throttle may only be 20-50% of the blowby at wide open throttle.

So if the "breather" being a filter, or a tube going the airfilter isn't large enough to handle the volume of blowby, then something usually gives.
Either the dipstick gets pushed out, oil leaks develop, or both.

Dons427 · #23 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 04:45 AM

I have a 428 SCJ.
I use a windage tray.
My dipstick had a bow to it, and it went above the windage tray, and the counter-weight on the crankshaft struck it, and broke off a piece!
Are you sure that you don't have a similar issue?

Don

kevins2 · #24 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 06:58 AM

I don't think so - no sign of any damage to the stick. I think I may have too much oil in it so am going to start by letting the level go down a bit. It is an 8 qt. system and I calibrated with 8 qts. The engine was broken in on a dyno so there was oil in there before I calibrated. Anyone know how much oil remains in an FE that's been drained? If it is significant, I may be over-filled.

PSB · #25 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 07:16 AM

When my dipstick was getting pushed out, here's what the problem was:

Bill Wallace · #26 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 07:23 AM

Kevin, I have exactly the same situation as you described. (Dipstick rising slightly, breathers on both valve covers with slight oil mist on the drivers side). The dipstick raises when I exercise the engine....WOT or sustained cruising at 3000 rpm). I don't have any oil consumption issues and the plugs look great. To address the situation I just wound a rubber band around the top of the dipstick and placed the other end around one of the bolts holding the water pump to the block. Not a small rubber band but a big one that the postal service uses to bundle all of my wife's catalogues together when they deliver the mail! It works fine but I think I will adopt the suggestion of one of the other posters and upgrade my crude solution to less inelegant solution of a worm clamp and a spring.

kevins2 · #27 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 08:23 AM

Thanks for all the input. I'll have to try driving the car modestly and check if it rises and then get into the throttle to see if that makes a difference. Meanwhile, if anyone knows the answer to how much residual oil is in an FE when drained, that would help me understand how much I may be overfilled since I calibrated with the full 8 qts. At the time I figured no harm in having a bit too much oil. I don't believe this is actually hurting anything if that is the case, but just trying to understand the issue and resolve it.

Thanks again,

Kevin

cycleguy55 · #28 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevins2

Thanks for all the input. I'll have to try driving the car modestly and check if it rises and then get into the throttle to see if that makes a difference. Meanwhile, if anyone knows the answer to how much residual oil is in an FE when drained, that would help me understand how much I may be overfilled since I calibrated with the full 8 qts. At the time I figured no harm in having a bit too much oil. I don't believe this is actually hurting anything if that is the case, but just trying to understand the issue and resolve it.

Thanks again,

Kevin

For purposes of calibrating the dipstick the bigger issue is the pan capacity. If you know the pan capacity, then you can calibrate the dipstick. I'm not sure the amount of retained or residual oil is relevant, quite frankly, as it will always be there regardless of pan capacity - unless the engine has been pulled, rotated and completely drained.

Calibration procedure, from http://www.milodon.com/dipsticks/dipsticks.asp: "TECH NOTE: You calibrate your new engine dipstick by draining all the oil from the pan, filling it with the recommended number of quarts and marking the new dipstick at that level."

I've also read you should fill it one quart short of capacity and put a 'Fill' or 'Add One' mark on the dipstick, then add the extra quart and put a second mark at the 'Full' level'. FWIW, my new pan is 12 litres, so I'm going to add 10 litres, make an 'Add 2' mark, add another litre and make an 'Add 1' mark, then top it up and make my 'Full' mark. I always fill new filters with oil before threading them on, but I'll check it after starting and see whether it needs more.

BTW: How do you know the system capacity is 8 quarts? Was that provided by the engine builder?

SwiftDB4 · #29 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 09:16 AM

BTW: How do you know the system capacity is 8 quarts? Was that provided by the engine builder?
Very important. Canton pan capacity includes 1 qt. for the filter.

DanEC · #30 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 10:13 AM

Yeah, I think the Canton oil pan capacity has confused several of us. I put 8-1/2 qts in mine last change and it's riding about 1/2 quart over full.

I had an experience a long time ago with over-filling a Pontiac engine. If it's overfilled enough to affect the engine you will start to see your oil pressure guage fluctuating due to the oil being aerated by the crank - it will be pretty noticeable. If not so full as to be aerating the oil, being over-filled somewhat shouldn't hurt anything otherwise.

kevins2 · #31 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 10:36 AM

Thanks guys, I do have the Canton pan and, from memory, recall that the total capacity with filter should be 8 qts.

Kevin

cycleguy55 · #32 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevins2

Thanks guys, I do have the Canton pan and, from memory, recall that the total capacity with filter should be 8 qts.

Kevin

Assuming it's the Canton 15-820 - FE FRONT SUMP RR T PAN, that would be 7 quarts in the pan and one in the filter. I'd put 6 quarts in the pan and put a 'Fill' or 'Add One' mark on the dipstick, then add the extra quart and put a second mark at the 'Full' level'.

My pan was custom built, deeper in front than the pan on Armando's Web site, so the published capacity isn't valid. When I got it I filled it with water from a calibrated pitcher until it got to the windage tray, so I know exactly what it takes. Interestingly, there is so much surface area in the pan that adding an additional litre or quart for oil retained in the heads will probably only raise the level in the pan by 1/8" - I'll know when I install it in the next week or so.

Detroit Bill · #33 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 12:19 PM

I have not read this whole tread but I have read bits and pieces over time.
If you have an oil cooler the lines could drive up the capacity.

kevins2 · #34 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 12:25 PM

Thanks Bill. It is the Canton 15-820, and no oil cooler hooked up. Bill, when you say "put 6 quarts in the pan" do you mean directly in the pan or ok to pour in through the valve cover as normal for calibration purposes?

patrickt · #35 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

I have not read this whole tread but I have read bits and pieces over time.
If you have an oil cooler the lines could drive up the capacity.

The oil cooler adds an additional half quart in mine. Eight and a half quarts for a full flush and fill with the Canton.

cycleguy55 · #36 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevins2

Thanks Bill. It is the Canton 15-820, and no oil cooler hooked up. Bill, when you say "put 6 quarts in the pan" do you mean directly in the pan or ok to pour in through the valve cover as normal for calibration purposes?

I assume you meant me when you posed the question.

Drain the pan as completely as you can (not necessary to remove it), then add 6 quarts through the valve cover. Give it lots of time to drain, probably 10 minutes, then check the level on the dipstick and mark accordingly. Then add another quart, let it drain another 10 minutes and check the level for your 'Full' mark. After that you can start it up, let things circulate for a bit, then shut it down and check the level after it's had some time to drain down. PITA, but you should only have to do it once.

kevins2 · #37 (**permalink**) 06-09-2015, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

I assume you meant me when you posed the question.

Yes, sorry Brian, I'm working and sneaking peaks here. Obviously I suck at multitasking...

Thanks for the help.

Kevin

Pete Munroe · #38 (**permalink**) 06-13-2015, 08:01 PM

The dipstick on my 289 was also guilty of exposing itself...

OK, I took care of THAT...

Actually this dipstick is bent, twisted or something and always would eventually spring back up. No blow by, just a springing dipstick.

Pete

Dons427 · #39 (**permalink**) 06-15-2015, 09:39 AM

I have a 428 FE with the canton 8-quart pan with the upside-down "T" shape and baffles.
I also have an oil cooler with the braided SS lines.
My car uses 10 quarts at oil changes.

I use Spectra semi-synthetic 10W-40 with zinc in it.

Don

sea2jet · #40 (**permalink**) 06-15-2015, 05:39 PM

I remember Bill Parnum of Southern Automotive supplying a sheet of notes along with the rebuild of a 427 side oiler. One of the notes mentioned that FE engines have a tendency to get the oil dipstick wrapped up in the crank. He recommended removing it and plugging the tube during use. Anyone else ever heard of this?