Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by LMH

The car will probably come with a Bill of Sale, like most race cars do but not an MSO. Different states will do it differently but in AZ without the MSO, it would be registered as a 2015. It would have to pass 2015 emissions standards and all that BS that goes along with it. Not sure that engine could pass those standards.
Larry

The press release says that the car comes with an MSO signed by CS himself.

[Phill Pollard]

Originally Posted by Bernica

I guess I'm a little confused as to why you couldn't get the car registered for street use. I understand that as a turn-key, at least here in CA you wouldn't be able to. But wouldn't there be a way around that by having the car completed as a roller, then buying and having the engine installed separately?

Trying to convert a Off-Road (race) car to the street would be impossible. Remember, this isn't a "Replica", "Kit Car", or roller. It's a complete vehicle.

The vehicle would have to meet CURRENT emission and safety standards.

These cars will NOT be 1965 cars, they will be 2015 cars, or whatever year they are COMPLETED in. Key Word: COMPLETED (in).

Carroll Shelby tried this before and if I remember right, was successful with completing/selling only a couple of them until the law stepped in and clarified the Year Model of them and he had to stop.

Safety standards alone would all but kill the car. Bumper height, headlight height, 5 mph bumpers, door bars, SRS/airbags, etc. etc. etc.

Then emission standards would finish the car off.


Phill Pollard

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Phill Pollard

Trying to convert a Off-Road (race) car to the street would be impossible. Remember, this isn't a "Replica", "Kit Car", or roller. It's a complete vehicle.

The vehicle would have to meet CURRENT emission and safety standards.

These cars will NOT be 1965 cars, they will be 2015 cars, or whatever year they are COMPLETED in. Key Word: COMPLETED (in).

Carroll Shelby tried this before and if I remember right, was successful with completing/selling only a couple of them until the law stepped in and clarified the Year Model of them and he had to stop.

Safety standards alone would all but kill the car. Bumper height, headlight height, 5 mph bumpers, door bars, SRS/airbags, etc. etc. etc.

Then emission standards would finish the car off.


Phill Pollard

So then how do I buy a Superformance, Kirkham or whatever today as a roller and have it registered? People do it all the time.
In CA, we have the SB100 exclusion from all those pesky regulations.
I must be missing something. I get it if you have to buy the car turn-key which would kill the registration (at least in CA) but why not as a roller?

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by Bernica

The press release says that the car comes with an MSO signed by CS himself.

Autopen, that's Shelbys signature...

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Bernica

So then how do I buy a Superformance, Kirkham or whatever today as a roller and have it registered? People do it all the time.
In CA, we have the SB100 exclusion from all those pesky regulations.
I must be missing something. I get it if you have to buy the car turn-key which would kill the registration (at least in CA) but why not as a roller?

You can buy a SPF or other as a roller without power train. Installing the power train by the manufacturer makes it a completed vehicle and would have to meet year of manufacture safety requirements. There is nothing new here... I said it, Phil said it, and I'm saying it again. I would have anticipated that this is understood by almost everyone here.

Shelby is choosing to NOT make these cars rollers to preserve the attribute of the originals as anyone can put any engine in they wish in a roller. These new cars will be in some cases closer to the originals than many of the originals are today. We'll see what in the MSO makes it impossible to register them for street use.

[LMH]

That surprises me that it would come with an MSO! How do they get CS to sign it I wonder?
Larry

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by LMH

That surprises me that it would come with an MSO! How do they get CS to sign it I wonder?
Larry

By signing them in advance? This was likely planned well in advance.

[Kit Coyle]

Are we going to finally see proper iron Halibrand eng. co. Torrance,ca marked knock-offs?
There are beautiful stainless steel spinners marked Shelby American Inc. and Cobra
Racing Torrance available, but they are incorrect. Are the proper ones being produced
and, if so, will they be for sale? To me this is a small detail...but a very important one.

[kanuck]

Like I said in a prior post, they were 1/2 million when they pulled this stunt 20 some odd years ago so I can only imagine now. will they be nice I am sure they will, but don't kid yourself they will never have the provenance no matter how much money they are, and if you think they will or will over time acquire it, you are just kidding yourself.

Dean

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I would have anticipated that this is understood by almost everyone here.

Shelby is choosing to NOT make these cars rollers to preserve the attribute of the originals as anyone can put any engine in they wish in a roller. These new cars will be in some cases closer to the originals than many of the originals are today. We'll see what in the MSO makes it impossible to register them for street use.

That's all I was asking and yes, I do understand.
I only asked because I wanted to be sure that SAI wouldn't start selling them as rollers, which would certainly pollute their provenance.

[REAL 1]

They're not "replicas"? Really? Did someone on this form really just say that? Wow!

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Bernica

That's all I was asking and yes, I do understand.
I only asked because I wanted to be sure that SAI wouldn't start selling them as rollers, which would certainly pollute their provenance.

Selling as rollers would pollute the Provenance? Really? All originals were sold as turnkey minus rollers from AC. That doesn't dilute their Providence.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Selling as rollers would pollute the Provenance? Really? All originals were sold as turnkey minus rollers from AC. That doesn't dilute their Providence.

[youtube]UNETiaGVBoE[/youtube]

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

All originals were sold as turnkey minus rollers from AC

Were any Comp cars sold as rollers?

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

By signing them in advance? This was likely planned well in advance.

Story time

My guess is they were signed by Carroll many, many years ago. This project first started in the late 80's/early 90's with Mike McCluskey. Mike told me Carroll was asking some $250,000 for them in the beginning. Quickly, the project got massive publicity (maybe too much publicity from CARB's point of view).

At the same time, Cobra prices skyrocketed. So, Carroll raised the price (and maybe some of the "story" too) to some $500,000--which was around the price of an S/C at the time. However, at such a high price, Carroll only sold a few and Mike ended up with a ton of parts and a few chassis.

Mike did a fabulous job of reverse engineering most of the parts at that time for the project. I remember walking through row after row after row of parts he made and stored above his paint booth in Torrance. I was gathering up parts to restore original Cobras to pay my way through college.

Side note:
DenBeste now owns most of what's left of those McCluskey parts. Carroll also bought a TON of original Lucas/Girling parts for the project. Shelby ended up with them and Shelby has now transferred what is left to DenBeste. DenBeste and Conway are working together on the project. They are a great team.

Back to the story...20 some years ago...

I was on my way to medical school when I heard about a MiG factory in Poland. As you see, I already knew Mike from original restorations I had done. So, I asked Mike to loan me one of those chassis to reverse engineer so I could make an entire car...Mike didn't know I had already started in Poland at the time. We kept that secret for a long time.

Mike said sure and so I asked him to send the chassis up to us in Utah. He said he didn't want to sent the chassis commercial freight because the chassis is/was extremely fragile (true enough). If you bend one of the body tubes it is a major pain to get everything straight again. He said shipping commercially was too risky.

So, right then and there, I jumped in my truck and drove down to LA. I picked up the chassis and drove it back to Utah. Upon arrival I put it on a truck and air freighted it to Poland to reverse engineer. It was an enormous risk, but I wasn't going to be deterred

Here is a picture of that chassis in Poland. The engineer in the photo has sadly passed away. Staszek taught me an incredible amount about engineering, metallurgy, and manufacturing.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Kit Coyle

Are we going to finally see proper iron Halibrand eng. co. Torrance,ca marked knock-offs?
There are beautiful stainless steel spinners marked Shelby American Inc. and Cobra
Racing Torrance available, but they are incorrect. Are the proper ones being produced
and, if so, will they be for sale? To me this is a small detail...but a very important one.

Hmmm...if Halibrand would give the OK to use their name I could probably billet them.



David

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Hmmm...if Halibrand would give the OK to use their name I could probably billet them.David

Geeez David! Do you go home at night and wonder how you could billet maybe the refrigerator or stove too?

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Geeez David! Do you go home at night and wonder how you could billet maybe the refrigerator or stove too?

Your god it too small.

I want to billet my house...

David

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

They're not "replicas"? Really? Did someone on this form really just say that? Wow!

Yes I'll say it. They're replicas. Not the same company, not the same materials, not the same employees and 50 years after the original run. They're replicas.

[RodKnock]

But these replicas can't be driven on a public road.