Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[REAL 1]

Here is my criticism and further issues with these cars and this project.

Let me see if I have this straight shall we?

1. There is a mountain of rare NOS Cobra parts consisting of Shelby "gold" and unobtainium treasure that will is expected to add tremendous value to this new "completion" car.

2. This mountain of Shelby "gold" is owned privately.

3. There has been no cataloging/inventory of these "precocious" parts or tagging them in any way. No documentation of them in the slightest by any recognized expert certifying or verifying the genuiness of what's on that inventory list and just how many of each exist.

4. These "Completion" cars are being sold privately or by the Shelby Trust? SAI is not involved in the sale? Kirkham is completing and sending to DeBeneste to finalize? Hell, if it's a complete car and I can't drive it anyway I want it sold to me through SAI just like in 1965 not DeBeneste or the Trust. The Trust or DeBeneste wasn't selling Cobras in 1965. Were they?

5. Just who is doing the stamping on the chassis? Kirkham or DeBeneste on behalf of SAI or are they stamped at SAI? When are they stamped? After all the so called pieces are bolted on or have they been set aside and pre-stamped?

6. The "Completion" Cobras is supposedly fitted with the "holy grail" of original NOS parts but there is not one photo, not one document evidencing the build, not one list or manifest of parts / pieces, nuts and bolts put into the car and taken from the master log or inventory. Do I have one nut that is an original nut or two? Are all the lines original or just the brake lines? How many original clamps are in the car? Do I have that original dip stick? or Lucas rearview or is it a repro or other? What about my half shafts? Do I have one original or two? Where is my parts build list?

7. This completion car is sent back to Debeneste to "complete" yet he paints it an off color of Guardsman Blue? What happened to originality? Yet we have a crowd standing around with glazed eyes gawking at this car without one shred of proof as to what's in it.

8. What we have here is a Continuation Series Shelby stuffed with a lot of original parts and accessories. That's it. How many and which parts and pieces are original? ...I guess we will just have to take DeBeneste's word for it.

9. Seems like the "Completion" Cobras will vary in well...completeness. Hell, CSX 4206 is likely to just as "Complete" as some of the completion series. However, who will know since there is no master inventory or tracking system of these parts and into what cars they go.

10. No matter how they try my bet is that none of these "completion" Cobras will ever be 100% complete. Were original rivets used, are all the nuts, bolts and screws original too? How about diff coolers? were they used? Are they original? Fuel pumps? SWs or something else...the list is extensive as we all know. Fatally, we already know the Chassis is not original or the body.

CSX3000 Vins belong to chassis built in 1960s not new chassis and bodies onto which old parts are bolted. This a canard of the highest order. Apocryphal. Seems to me they are going to be selling "Air cars" with CSX 3000 vins. What documentation will be provided as to what is original and what's not that was bolted to the car for which they likely will want over $500,000.00 for.

Better their money than mine.

As they say on Shark tank....I'm out.

If they want to build historically dead nuts accurate Cobras that's great and a cool thing but they should not be labeled completion Cobras. A more appropriate name would be CSX 4000H for "Historic"

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

5. Just who is doing the stamping on the chassis? Kirkham or DeBeneste on behalf of SAI or are they stamped at SAI? When are they stamped? After all the so called pieces are bolted on or have they been set aside and pre-stamped?

I asked same question some time ago on this thread. Look back and see response.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Here is my criticism and further issues with these cars and this project.

Let me see if I have this straight shall we?

Do I have a Lucas rearview or is it a repro or other?

Answer: There will be no rearview mirror installed, because "What's a behind me is not important!"

Speaking of which, I wonder when the Shelby Cobra "Gumball Rally" Limited Edition will be coming out? Anyone?

Seriously, I should get paid for these ideas.

[David Kirkham]

Evan,

I admire lawyers like you who are careful to get every nut, bolt, and screw correct. I truly do. That's why you pay for good counsel. I have used good lawyers and they are invaluable. I've also had the unfortunate experience of running into a few (well, more than a few) bad ones. The ones who nail down all the details are invaluable.

Alas, I doubt (but don't know) bolt counters are the target clientele. I'm sure they will personally work out the details to everyone's satisfaction and then go from there.

Bill's word is gold. I have done, and continue to do, large deals on nothing more than a phone call or a handshake.

David


ps. Bill painted the car the proper/original color (which I personally don't like but was right in this instance). Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post. It's Mike who alters colors when customers request it.

EDIT!

I just got off the phone with the guys at DenBeste and they confirmed we did NOT make the car in the press release. The car we made hasn't been painted yet.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Evan,

I admire lawyers like you who are careful to get every nut, bolt, and screw correct. I truly do. That's why you pay for good counsel. I have used good lawyers and they are invaluable. I've also had the unfortunate experience of running into a few (well, more than a few) bad ones. The ones who nail down all the details are invaluable.

Ditto!

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Bill's word is gold. I have done, and continue to do, large deals on nothing more than a phone call or a handshake.

I did this once, went in to bat for them too... Boy, was that an error in judgement on my part.

I trust though that your evaluation of character is better than mine.


Just a thought, borrowing from Evan's logic (If I may Evan) - If all these original NOS parts are bound to a 1967 Volkswagen beetle chassis, with a cobra body would they more, or less original?


Further, while we are on the subject of their name and place in history... Actively calling them CSX3000s seems almost purposefully misleading to me... and that leaves a distaste that has me cynical and skeptical about the entire project/operation, despite the cool factor of all those historic bits and pieces.

[fordracing65]

I think it's kind of funny they are calling these 3000 cars, too bad for the guys with 3000 cars already, just another way for Shelby to mess things all up...

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

I think it's kind of funny they are calling these 3000 cars, too bad for the guys with 3000 cars already, just another way for Shelby to mess things all up...

I guess just call them Shelby 3000* with the asteriscs

[REAL 1]

So SAAC has already accepted these cars into the Registry as 3000 series Cobras? We have SAAC members here and in fact..hmmm a moderator here is a SAAC official and concours judge and Ned is SAAC original Cobra Registrar. What say they about the "new" CSX 3000 series being placed in the Registrar as CSX 3000s? Someone must have the inside scoop. I think we already know where Ned stands. My guess is that this "competition" "completion"??? "CSX3000" series car will get a lot of push back from SAAC and the article may have spoken out of school or have relied on incorrect info.

While I agree with David you can't rely on the press to report accurately, and I can personally attest to that, Kirkham assembled the first car David is here and can tell us....

David, is the car built to comp specs or SC specs...which? We all know there are major differences. Is it that it was built to SC specs but its now called the "competition" series? That's makes sense. More confusion.

As to the MSO's. It's easy. If they are autopen and if its like any other color copy you should not be able to see pen impressions or see the signature through the reverse side. My MSO has an original signature. You can see it through the reverse side and see the pen impression marks.

Are they Continuation MSOs? Are they different. My MSO references the car as a 1965 also. Clearly incorrect.

Also if they are original signatures the signatures will vary from MSO to MSO. Can we see some samples? If they are all exactly, exactly alike its auto pen.

If I am buying one of these cars and I am told its an original signature on the MSO I will know the difference. We aren't all as stupid as they may think we are.

[Bernica]

So, as a true Comp Car, does it have the Holley carb with the LeMans bowls on it? Inquiring minds would want to know.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

So SAAC has already accepted these cars into the Registry as 3000 series Cobras? We have SAAC members here and in fact..hmmm a moderator here is a SAAC official and concours judge and Ned is SAAC original Cobra Registrar. What say they about the "new" CSX 3000 series being placed in the Registrar as CSX 3000s? Someone must have the inside scoop. I think we already know where Ned stands. My guess is that this "competition" "completion"??? "CSX3000" series car will get a lot of push back from SAAC and the article may have spoken out of school or have relied on incorrect info.

While I agree with David you can't rely on the press to report accurately, and I can personally attest to that, Kirkham assembled the first car David is here and can tell us....

David, is the car built to comp specs or SC specs...which? We all know there are major differences. Is it that it was built to SC specs but its now called the "competition" series? That's makes sense. More confusion.

As to the MSO's. It's easy. If they are autopen and if its like any other color copy you should not be able to see pen impressions or see the signature through the reverse side. My MSO has an original signature. You can see it through the reverse side and see the pen impression marks.

Are they Continuation MSOs? Are they different. My MSO references the car as a 1965 also. Clearly incorrect.

Also if they are original signatures the signatures will vary from MSO to MSO. Can we see some samples? If they are all exactly, exactly alike its auto pen.

If I am buying one of these cars and I am told its an original signature on the MSO I will know the difference. We aren't all as stupid as they may think we are.

Decades ago when the completion cars were originally conceived, there were only 30 or 40 something MSOs for Shelby to sign. In that case I could imagine that they printed them all at once and Shelby could have signed them all in 10 minutes instead of taking the time to sign each one individually as the cars were completed. So it does not seem out of the question that the MSOs for these cars were not auto penned.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

So SAAC has already accepted these cars into the Registry as 3000 series Cobras? We have SAAC members here and in fact..hmmm a moderator here is a SAAC official and concours judge and Ned is SAAC original Cobra Registrar. What say they about the "new" CSX 3000 series being placed in the Registrar as CSX 3000s? Someone must have the inside scoop. I think we already know where Ned stands. My guess is that this "competition" "completion"??? "CSX3000" series car will get a lot of push back from SAAC and the article may have spoken out of school or have relied on incorrect info.

Who came up with the moniker "Continuation"? Wasn't it Shelby?

Ultimately, SAAC catalogs what Shelby (and Kirkham) produces. I'm sure, these "Resurrection" Cobras will have a separate chapter in the next World Registry with their CSX3000 designation.

For the record, being a SAAC member, I also disagree with the designation of CSX3000 for these new CSX3000's. In my mind, my position stands: it's a replica being built by Shelby. It's not the same company, not the same employees, not the same era and not the same materials.