Educating Cobra Buyers?

[mrmustang]

For those that are less than knowledgeable, should we be able to educate them without worrying about what that education will do to future sales and/or the bubble of future values based on those sales to the less than knowledgeable potential buyer(s)?

For those that came here to the Cobra forum as the less than knowledgeable, and were educated before you made your purchase, would you not want the same knowledge passed on to the future potential buyer(s)?

Then again, should the question of value ever come in to the subject of educating prospective buyers?

Respectively submitted,


Bill S.

[cycleguy55]

My perspective is always to take the long term view. Helping seriously interested individuals with their decisions by providing information is a good thing. OTOH, dissuading those who really aren't 'Cobra people' is probably a good thing as well.

There may be ups and downs in future values, but the overall health of the market should be enhanced by proper matches or fits between product and consumer.

[66gtk]

Information is power. Anybody who chooses not to seek it can't make wise decisions on their own. The more info the better. That being said, this is a long learning curve with these cars considering all the possibilities currently available.

[Dangerous Doug]

So, you're asking if a Cobra seller has an ethical/moral responsibility to dissuade a potential buyer from purchasing a Cobra when the Cobra seller has determined that the potential buyer is unfit for ownership?

[For example, someone that knows nothing of maintaining cars and has neither the aptitude or willingness to learn, nor the resources to have it properly maintained once he's drained his bank account in making the purchase.]

Or, do you mean that the Cobra seller knows the Cobra is not up to Cobra standards and a potential buyer doesn't know enough to warn himself, should the Cobra seller dissuade the potential buyer?

[In this instance I mean a badly executed build on a disreputable Cobra vendor.]

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug

So, you're asking if a Cobra seller has an ethical/moral responsibility to dissuade a potential buyer from purchasing a Cobra when the Cobra seller has determined that the potential buyer is unfit for ownership?

[For example, someone that knows nothing of maintaining cars and has neither the aptitude or willingness to learn, nor the resources to have it properly maintained once he's drained his bank account in making the purchase.]

Or, do you mean that the Cobra seller knows the Cobra is not up to Cobra standards and a potential buyer doesn't know enough to warn himself, should the Cobra seller dissuade the potential buyer?

[In this instance I mean a badly executed build on a disreputable Cobra vendor.]

Doug,

My original post was more to determine whether we as a group of now educated cobra buyers should educate someone just learning about them in regards to what to look for, or what to watch out for. On another forum I had an admin belittle me because I offered an opinion on a car I felt was overpriced for what it was. He pretty much told me that I am single handily bringing down the resale market with my comments/opinion.

As such, I started this thread on all three of the larger Cobra forums to get others opinions as to whether it is ethical for me/us to educate a potential buyer as to what is or what is not a good deal.

Bill S.

[Tim7139]

IMHO probably the best tool for the unexperienced is a forum such as this and the ability for someone to search and use tools found here to garner information.
That said, while answering questions is helpful, not sure most realize asking the right questions is more useful.
I see people continually underestimate the total impracticality of these cars and the benefit if not outright requirement to have at least a basic mechanical skillset.

In the end, information is good. What benefits the hobby and potential sales more, someone that comes in with a basic understanding or somebody that acted on impulse/emotion learns everything the hard way and then complains about everything he probably should have known to everybody that will listen?

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Doug,

My original post was more to determine whether we as a group of now educated cobra buyers should educate someone just learning about them in regards to what to look for, or what to watch out for. On another forum I had an admin belittle me because I offered an opinion on a car I felt was overpriced for what it was. He pretty much told me that I am single handily bringing down the resale market with my comments/opinion.

As such, I started this thread on all three of the larger Cobra forums to get others opinions as to whether it is ethical for me/us to educate a potential buyer as to what is or what is not a good deal.

Bill S.

I read your "other forum" post. Saw nothing offensive. That other forum is easily riled and fiercely protective of their marque. I've been chastised as well. I've owned one of their kits and the build quality goes from atrocious to perfection. Buyers definitely need to be educated about the various makes so that they can make wise purchases.
You've always expressed your thoughts in a non threatening manner and have helped numerous owners fix or diagnose problems as well as evaluate their purchases.
I know the moderator that chastised you and he's a good guy and a very loyal soldier.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

On another forum I had an admin belittle me because I offered an opinion on a car I felt was overpriced for what it was. He pretty much told me that I am single handily bringing down the resale market with my comments/opinion.

Bill S.

Speaking of ethics, as a moderator, is it ethical to comment on someone else's opinion of the market value of a car? Maybe your comment about market value was in thewrong forum? Maybe this moderator is wonderful person, but he or she is out of touch with being a moderater. Since when does any discussion of market value on any site go out of bounds?

I'd report that moderator to the site owner and tell the site owner, if your opinion is single-handily bringing down the market, then the moderator needs a time out. I have no idea what site you're referring to, but I'd be tempted to tell him or her to go to "you know where."

Did you see Jamo or Computerworks getting involved with moderating market discussions? I think the only time they get involved is when the real vs. replica argument gets out of hand and Evan refers to the SAAC Bible as his reference to legitimize his replica.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Speaking of ethics, as a moderator, is it ethical to comment on someone else's opinion of the market value of a car? Maybe your comment about market value was in thewrong forum? Maybe this moderator is wonderful person, but he or she is out of touch with being a moderater. Since when does any discussion of market value on any site go out of bounds?

I'd report that moderator to the site owner and tell the site owner, if your opinion is single-handily bringing down the market, then the moderator needs a time out. I have no idea what site you're referring to, but I'd be tempted to tell him or her to go to "you know where."

Did you see Jamo or Computerworks getting involved with moderating market discussions? I think the only time they get involved is when the real vs. replica argument gets out of hand and Evan refers to the SAAC Bible as his reference to legitimize his replica.

I know the Admin, he and I have never gotten into much of anything until his public comment on a thread aimed at me, and clearly against the rules as posted for that site. My PM's went unanswered, but I can assume that it took a few days (6 to be exact) for him to see the error in his judgement, as the offending post and all who quoted it have been removed. I hold no ill will towards him, or the other forum, don't want anyone else to either as that was not the point of starting this thread.

Bill S.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

I know the Admin, he and I have never gotten into much of anything until his public comment on a thread aimed at me, and clearly against the rules as posted for that site. My PM's went unanswered, but I can assume that it took a few days (6 to be exact) for him to see the error in his judgement, as the offending post and all who quoted it have been removed. I hold no ill will towards him, or the other forum, don't want anyone else to either as that was not the point of starting this thread.

Bill S.

If you hold no "ill will," then you're a better person than me. The person had an error in judgement, aimed an offensive remark to you and didn't answer your PM's. Then removes the offending remarks and everything related to it, as if nothing ever happened, and never once responded to you with an apology.

I'd be at least a little miffed, though I'd quickly get over it.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Speaking of ethics, as a moderator, is it ethical to comment on someone else's opinion of the market value of a car? Maybe your comment about market value was in thewrong forum? Maybe this moderator is wonderful person, but he or she is out of touch with being a moderater. Since when does any discussion of market value on any site go out of bounds?

I'd report that moderator to the site owner and tell the site owner, if your opinion is single-handily bringing down the market, then the moderator needs a time out. I have no idea what site you're referring to, but I'd be tempted to tell him or her to go to "you know where."

Did you see Jamo or Computerworks getting involved with moderating market discussions? I think the only time they get involved is when the real vs. replica argument gets out of hand and Evan refers to the SAAC Bible as his reference to legitimize his replica.

No...in fact hell no you won't see us interfering with the open market. I am a firm believer in evolution as god/allah/jehova and the jungle intended...survival of the fittest. If a lion's chasing us, I only need to run faster than you, or more likely, given my slow ass, trip you. I believe in the dynamics of a certain amount of morons to feed the kitty while the rest of us move on. I'm tired of slowing down the rotation of the earth to wait and help those who are too stupid to fend for themselves and ask questions first before they jump.

I have, and will continue to, answer questions from folks that have a true desire to learn. I teach college students as a hobby and for fun...I weed out the folks that will waste the time of the rest of the students before the deadline to drop classes.

So no...I don't think anyone here or this site owes a damn thing to those who won't fend for themselves and do the research. For those folks...let them use public transportation once they lose their ass on a bad purchase. Damn country is turning into an entitlement den.

That being said...I said it.

[750hp]

Originally Posted by Jamo

I am a firm believer in evolution as god/allah/jehova and the jungle intended...survival of the fittest. If a lion's chasing us, I only need to run faster than you, or more likely, given my slow ass, trip you. I believe in the dynamics of a certain amount of morons to feed the kitty while the rest of us move on. I'm tired of slowing down the rotation of the earth to wait and help those who are too stupid to fend for themselves and ask questions first before they jump.

Best response ever! Jamo, I need to memorise this and say it at the next departmental meeting at work. People will either want to shout me a beer or fire me...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Jamo

If a lion's chasing us, I only need to run faster than you, or more likely, given my slow ass, trip you.

If a lion is chasing us, then you better hope you have a running car to get into. Otherwise, you will be dinner.

Harrumph!

[Large Arbor]

I think it is ok to educate potential buyers. I don't think it hurts potential sellers. I educated myself by watching Cobra Country, reading the posts on this site, and attending the London, Ohio show (staring in 2004) , driving an SPF, for a couple of years before my purchase and then waited to find what I was searching for. If you do lots of reading, you can be an educated buyer.

Your post raises a good point in that does it hurt sellers? I think not. Some sellers undervalue their vehicle and some over value. One thing is for sure, they cost much more to build then to buy completed. Buyers should keep that in mind. Its amazing to me how much the costs have been driven upward by all of the components. I could not build mine today for less than $90k. If I had more cash I would have bought more vehicles here that have come up for sale as some are priced well.

Phil

[1795]

Bill

I think that you are correct in that as cobra owners, it would be nice for us to share our knowledge with potential cobra owners. I do not think that it would hurt the market, it might actually help the market. A totally uniformed buyer might get into something that is beyond his skill level and then sell off the car at a loss, thereby lowering the market value of cars. There then might be a run on selling cobras and we could start a new Great Depression !

Seriously though, when asked, we should share our knowledge when asked by people seeking knowledge as they go about contemplating a purchase. The person then has the opportunity to make a more informed decision. Similar to Phil, I spent some time researching my purchase and making comparisons. I not only researched cobras, but also cobra owners to get an idea about their credibility.

I think that as long as people are giving good faith perspectives, that the forum benefits. That is why a forum exists, to provide an opportunity for people to share ideas and perspectives.

Jim

[Dimis]

Two sides to a coin.

Respectfully - While you may be helping out a potential buyer ask yourself are you doing a disservice to the seller?

Does the seller deserve that disservice?
Does the buyer deserve your help?

Sometimes it ain't so clear...

As far as I can tell, you're a good man with good intentions.
Let your conscience guide you on a case by case basis.

Kindest regards.

[blown]

I don't think your advise would effect the value of a honest seller, only the ones that are trying to scam unsuspecting people. I see people all the time paying premium prices for medium cars due to them not having knowledge also not everyone should own one of these cars they could be a danger to them selves and others so I for one appreciate the advice you gave me as I was looking at them. Most people don't know the value difference between a Kirkham to a street beast or a used 302 vs a built 427

[1795]

To clarify my earlier post, I do not think that we should be directly commenting that someones car is over-priced, that is up to a buyer to determine. I think that if we see a really good bargain, it would be acceptable to mention that it looks like a good buy.

Comments should reflect good mannered attempts to share information, so that not only potential buyers, but current owners as well may benefit. Reading comments made by others help me to put to rest a recurring problem with my car that turned out to be a faulty intake manifold. New manifold and no more concerns with oil consumption. Through education a buyer can learn what to look for. Unfortunately, it is not as easy to purchase a cobra as it is to purchase a conventional car. There are no write-ups in consumer reports, and the consistency even within a manufacturer varies considerably, as the cars are influenced considerably by the buyer during the build.

[66gtk]

Originally Posted by 1795

To clarify my earlier post, I do not think that we should be directly commenting that someones car is over-priced, that is up to a buyer to determine. I think that if we see a really good bargain, it would be acceptable to mention that it looks like a good buy.

This - exactly. I think the problem would come in if you are commenting directly about a car listed for sale on the same public forum in a negative way that hurts the sale for the owner. We also must keep in mind that most Cobra owners aren't like us who visit and participate in forum discussions. They just want a cool car. Nothing wrong with that. They don't have the desire or the time to fill themselves with all the information they need to make an informed decision. They may buy on impulse, or they may use a broker or friend to sort through all the details for them. For these reasons they may pay a higher price, and that's OK. No need to publicly tell them that a certain car may be over priced in a case like this. They are getting what they paid for, and they don't have time to scour the internet for the best car/deal over a course of months/years.

[RodKnock]

Commenting that a car is overpriced or a good buy in one of the discussion forums is fine by me. However, what infuriates me is when someone posts comments about price, too high or good buy, in the seller's actual ad. Unless you have a question about the seller's car, stay the heck out of the seller's ad,

As long as someone sets up a thread in a discussion forum, like "All Cobra Talk", then commenting on price, good buy or overpriced POS, is welcome.