Engine Option (Just For Discussion)

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by blykins

Exactly...

When you equalize the displacement you'll see that the Ford would be almost 70 hp over the Chevy.

Now try and explain to me how superior the LS engine is.

I'm still waiting for you to point out Ford's equivalent performance engine platform (let alone Ford's superior one)-

If you want to call out the Coyote platform, then I won't argue, except to say: "Time will tell", and/or "I guess 18 years was a long enough head start for Ford to give GM"

You're entire argument has been "Pro engine builders like me understand things that imbeciles like you don't..." You're a custom engine builder who prefers Fords - I get that, and I also get that there are successful race teams out there running engines based on a whole myriad of design platforms.

But shops like Lingenfelter and MTI Motorsports were out there building 600HP NA LS engines (Using factory GM cranks and connecting rods) for a decade, while all Ford was doing was fighting to get out of honoring warranty claims against its crappy modular V8, Which the Mustang tuner crowd was out there blowing up left and right...

I consider the LS to be a superior engine platform simply because LS engines are proven to handle the abuse (even the excessive abuse dished out by 20-something, FastandFurious wannabe's) and they are capable of producing 100%+ VE without any significant degradation in engine longevity or durability. And they've been doing this since 1997 (nearly 20 years).

Ford does not have a modern engine platform that can match that track-record (unless you can point it out to me)

If HP/displacement is the governing factor on what makes a "superior" engine, then I guess the 4.6 Modular V8 is/was not only better than the LS, but is also better than the FE or the Windsor before it... right? If so, then why are there so many windowed 4.6 liter Fords sitting in junkyards, compared to so few LS1's... ?

Now, we could continue to volley this little yellow ball back and forth, but it would only serve to entertain everyone else on ClubCobra... You are unlikely to change my mind, because you lost me at "LS heads are based on Cleveland heads", and "LS heads will bolt directly onto a Windsor block" - neither of which is technically (nor historically) accurate...

Besides, we're talking about OHC versus pushrod engines here - If we want to level the field, then like you said earlier- we should compare apples to apples...

But it's been fun...

[blykins]

Well, you actually can bolt LS heads to a Windsor block. Do a search, guys do it.

Also, there is nothing new under the sun when it comes to engines. BBC's, BBF's and Clevelands all share the same design architecture. When Chevy decided to start with a clean slate, look at the design characteristics that they implemented: same bore spacing as a Ford, similar valve angles, valve sizes, port CSA, and exhaust layout. (Chevy switched from having the middle two exhaust pipes close to each other, to spacing it out like a Ford. They also changed to a Ford style oil pump, among other things.) There are only so many ways to design an engine, but Chevy copied a lot of Ford ideas on the LS. Actually, you can convert an LS to distributor ignition and guess what you use.......an MSD Ford 302 distributor.

As for superior engine designs, what are you basing your decision on? Horsepower? Surely not, because there are many naturally aspirated SBF's, Clevelands, BBF's, etc., than can easily match the horsepower and efficiency that an LS can. I'm not sure where the idea that the LS is such a brain child came from, because none of the engine builders I know just don't share that same idea.....??????

As far as Modular Fords go, the Mods have been out since 1996. A factory aluminum 4.6L DOHC block will take 1000 hp without batting an eyelash. They are bulletproof as far as I'm concerned. As for how many 4.6's I see windowed in the junkyards, to be honest, I've seen zero. The 5.4's are known for poor piston quench and poor spark plug design, but the 4.6's and 5.0's have been out for a very long time and are very proven.

I've quoted numbers, taken straight from the manufacturers' websites. I guess that's not enough argument that the Ford engines will make horsepower easier.

A 1.2 hp/ci engine (referring to that 6.2L LS) is not hard to duplicate. FE's are certainly not the epitome of big horsepower, but if I couldn't duplicate that with a Windsor or Cleveland, I'd give up engine building. Saying an engine has had durability or longevity since 1997 makes me laugh out loud.....because SBF's have been doing that since the late 60's.

Nice try, but no cigar sir. As far as I'm concerned, if your GM fact quotes are anything like your math, I'm unimpressed....LOL

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by blykins

Well, you actually can bolt LS heads to a Windsor block. Do a search, guys do it.

NO, they don't... They bolt LS heads onto modified Windsor blocks. As to WHY they do that...? Who knows- I mean, why would someone want to run inferior GM cylinder heads on their superior SBF, anyway...?

...

Originally Posted by blykins

Nice try, but no cigar sir. As far as I'm concerned, if your GM fact quotes are anything like your math, I'm unimpressed....LOL

Damn- Because impressing you is the only reason I've hung around this thread as long as I have... I'm a loser- an abject failure.

I surrender - You win. Ford built the better mouse trap, but the world was too stupid to buy it, because Chevy's mouse trap was cheaper.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by moore_rb

NO, they don't... They bolt LS heads onto modified Windsor blocks. As to WHY they do that...? Who knows- I mean, why would someone want to run inferior GM cylinder heads on their superior SBF, anyway...?

...



Damn- Because impressing you is the only reason I've hung around this thread as long as I have... I'm a loser- an abject failure.

I surrender - You win. Ford built the better mouse trap, but the world was too stupid to buy it, because Chevy's mouse trap was cheaper.

Glad you're catching on. ;-)