Oh brother, another thread shot down the tubes before it really got started.
I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned budget in this conversation. Not everyone who has or wants a Cobra (or any hotrod for that matter) has enough cash to plunk down for the latest and greatest motor regardless of their lust for one. I'm quite sure many people who would love an FE 427, 428 or whatever but are taken back by the $25K (?) price tag, or the additional weight, or the reputation or hearsay of likely failure, etc....
Others may be in over their heads just plunking down $7-12K for a crate engine in a small block. Personally, I'm kind of a cheap skate but I also love to build engines so I built my own 393 stroker and I really like how it runs and particularly how it sounds with the sidepipes. I think I have around $3500 in the whole engine and it runs in the area of 515 hp- more than enough for me at the moment.
Sound is another impetus for some buyers, but unless someone is really engine savvy I'm betting 90% or more of hot rodders and cobra owners couldn't tell the difference between a small block and a big block from the sound alone.
Personally, a built small block in the 351 Windsor family fits the bill for me. Quick response, relatively inexpensive and reliable to build and maintain, fits the engine compartment fairly easily, sufficient grunt and sound to make most bystanders stop and watch as you go by if my results are any indication. What's not to like?
Bob
PS- I'm a Chevy guy and I like the LS line a lot. Much like the earlier GM small blocks, they are easy to upgrade, lots of parts available for hot rodders, lots of them to choose from , etc..... but this is only the second SBF I've built and I really have enjoyed the process and the engine has responded fairly easily to my ham handed wrenching techniques.. not that I'm going to threaten Brent's business any time soon!
Cobra Make, Engine: Some polish thing... With some old engine
Posts: 2,286
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Peaks
I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned budget in this conversation. Not everyone who has or wants a Cobra (or any hotrod for that matter) has enough cash to plunk down for the latest and greatest motor regardless of their lust for one. I'm quite sure many people who would love an FE 427, 428 or whatever but are taken back by the $25K (?) price tag, or the additional weight, or the reputation or hearsay of likely failure, etc....
Just to be clear... and fair... you cant have your cake and eat it too....
I'm willing to bet $25k FE build, is typically an all ALU build (block, heads, and intake). These DO weigh in at similar figures to your standard small block build.
That said for $25K you could probably build an all ALU SBF... then you'd have your weight advantage, but not your $$$ advantage.
My personal Engine choice would match my choice in kit.
Kirkham, Shelby: FE All ALU
ERA: FE, 428 or 390 stroker, may be even All Alu.
SPF, Hurricane, FFR, multitude of others: SBF
SPF, Backdraft: MOD motor. Maybe even electric (NO kidding!).
That all said - If my bonnet had a Scoop, I'd have an suitable intake that could be seen peeking through that gap
I LOVE that look!
Just to be clear... and fair... you cant have your cake and eat it too....
I'm willing to bet $25k FE build, is typically an all ALU build (block, heads, and intake). These DO weigh in at similar figures to your standard small block build.
That said for $25K you could probably build an all ALU SBF... then you'd have your weight advantage, but not your $$$ advantage.
My personal Engine choice would match my choice in kit.
Kirkham, Shelby: FE All ALU
ERA: FE, 428 or 390 stroker, may be even All Alu.
SPF, Hurricane, FFR, multitude of others: SBF
SPF, Backdraft: MOD motor. Maybe even electric (NO kidding!).
That all said - If my bonnet had a Scoop, I'd have an suitable intake that could be seen peeking through that gap
I LOVE that look!
I'm Cammer all the way. I love those engines.
I love the hypocrisy here. Folks are worried about the weight of the engine or other components of their Cobra, yet often carry around 25-50-75 lbs of extra weight around their mid-sections.
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA Street Roadster #782 with 459 cu in FE KC engine, toploader, 3.31
Posts: 4,533
Not Ranked
Well, I'm inspired now with all of this engine swapping, cross pollination talk. Think I'm going to pull the 427 out of my 66 Corvette and install it in the ERA. It's a pretty rowdy engine so kind of goes with a Cobra. Next, I'll pull the 440 out of my 67 GTX and plug it into the Corvette - it needs to be calmed down a little anyway. And the FE can go into the 67 GTX because it's kind of heavy and could use a bit more torque. That should keep the boys down at the monthly Sonic cruise night talking for awhile.
Well, I'm inspired now with all of this engine swapping, cross pollination talk. Think I'm going to pull the 427 out of my 66 Corvette and install it in the ERA. It's a pretty rowdy engine so kind of goes with a Cobra. Next, I'll pull the 440 out of my 67 GTX and plug it into the Corvette - it needs to be calmed down a little anyway. And the FE can go into the 67 GTX because it's kind of heavy and could use a bit more torque. That should keep the boys down at the monthly Sonic cruise night talking for awhile.
I think I'm going to follow Dan's example and transplant my air-cooled 911 engine into my Cobra. I mean some idiots, er, enthusiasts, put Chevy's into "original" 911's for heaven's sake.
I just have to say who would want a real cobra other than for the potential value of selling it. Can you imagine what a giant pain in the ass it would be to have an original.....you would be a complete basket of nerves driving it around and it would be a 50 year old car that you would be tinkering around with. I will take my Superformance professional kit car any day of the week. I am not saying there is anything wrong with owning an original car.....if you have the financial means and it floats your boat then that is excellent. I really like to drive my car and I can't see how practical it would be to drive an original and beat the crap out of it. You also couldn't bring yourself to modify anything or put your taste on it. Just sit back and think to yourself how great it is we can all have and or build our own version of what we want in a Cobra for $50-150K.
I guarantee you if first generation camaros were 1 million dollars there would be a market flooded with kit/replica cars and people would be rolling in cars with all types of new age suspension and powertrains. The cobra market is no different they just happened to make a much smaller quantity of them. Now back to the motor talk! Let's here about power potential, reliability and cost instead of what the heck the valve covers look like
Cobra Make, Engine: Some polish thing... With some old engine
Posts: 2,286
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock
I'm Cammer all the way. I love those engines.
I love the hypocrisy here. Folks are worried about the weight of the engine or other components of their Cobra, yet often carry around 25-50-75 lbs of extra weight around their mid-sections.
Cammers are rubbish... They last only 50miles of street use, and then aren't worth the warranty.
But YOU already know this, and that's why you don't have one
As for losing 50lbs... Yikes, That would amputation for me to achieve.
Which engine is best. When I titled my kit car, I presented the inspector with MY manufacture tags. Technically I am the manufacturer of my car, so I built it MY way. In 1968 I was looking at a blown up cobra, I also had an original ZL-1 available.(it turned out to be a little warm so I passed.) To present day the heritage ZL-1 came available so I put together a 40 plus year old idea. I liked the SOHC, been done. I liked the boss 429, been done. If somebody and their kids built a kit with a 4cylinder from an old pick-up, I'd consider that pretty cool if that was what they could afford and spent the hundreds of hours together building their car. I just wanted something different. Its the builders choice, do what you like and enjoy it.
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
Not Ranked
Love the Cammer as well and have helped work on them, but they are too worrisome for me with all the variables and reliability (that's just me) as well as fitment issues.
Love the Boss 429 as well, but fitment issues etc in a Cobra...
Love the Tunnel Port 427 too!
Love to hear an SBC scream at over 10k (saw in one of Larry Minor's cars)
Lots of love above, I know. But I always end up back at the well-built FE MR that I personally understand best.
__________________
All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
Cammers are rubbish... They last only 50miles of street use, and then aren't worth the warranty.
But YOU already know this, and that's why you don't have one
As for losing 50lbs... Yikes, That would amputation for me to achieve.
Somebody must be able to build a reliable Cammer out there, CC member Damage's Cammer notwithstanding. Jay Leno has had a Cammer in his Cobra for a couple decades. He famously appeared with it in a TV commercial many years ago.
I'd probably look to Robert Pond down in SoCal to build one, if I suddenly got the itch to torch $50,000 +/- of my money.
As for losing 50 lbs, amputation of a limb is not required. A more desirable approach would be just converting fat to muscle and that would work OK too.
Years ago, two cammers I helped work on were NOS crate engines and we did nothing but install them and they worked great.
Then we worked on a couple of "rebuilt" ones and had nothing but troubles.
I guess the story there is that if you're going the cammer route, know who you are dealing with and what his knowledge is in this particular engine.
I see them on Ebay all the time and cringe...
My Cammer would definitely be very reliable.........nestled between the frame rails of my Kirkham.................sitting in the garage, under a car cover, year round. I think at some point, I'll just move it into the living room, so I can look at it more often.
Cobra Make, Engine: Some polish thing... With some old engine
Posts: 2,286
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock
A more desirable approach would be just converting fat to muscle and that would work OK too.
Earlier on in this thread you were seemingly one of few that could do the math (ie: EZ$'s post & calculations) but now, I'm thinking maybe you just got lucky?
Converting 50lbs of fat in to muscle, still leaves you with 50lbs of muscle.
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimis
Earlier on in this thread you were seemingly one of few that could do the math (ie: EZ$'s post & calculations) but now, I'm thinking maybe you just got lucky?
Converting 50lbs of fat in to muscle, still leaves you with 50lbs of muscle.
Enjoy...
You beat me to it!
__________________
All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
Earlier on in this thread you were seemingly one of few that could do the math (ie: EZ$'s post & calculations) but now, I'm thinking maybe you just got lucky?
Converting 50lbs of fat in to muscle, still leaves you with 50lbs of muscle.
Enjoy...
Hey, I was trying to save you from amputation.
I don't believe there's a 1:1 correlation between converting fat to muscle, but I'm not an expert. In my experience, people will gain muscle, lose fat and lose weight in the process, depending on how much their metabolism has increased due to their exercise regimen.
PS- I'm a Chevy guy and I like the LS line a lot. Much like the earlier GM small blocks, they are easy to upgrade, lots of parts available for hot rodders, lots of them to choose from , etc..... but this is only the second SBF I've built and I really have enjoyed the process and the engine has responded fairly easily to my ham handed wrenching techniques.. not that I'm going to threaten Brent's business any time soon!
There are pluses and minuses to every engine family. I have yet to find one family that has everything in check. Everyone may think that I'm pro-Ford all the way and have never touched a Chevy, but I have handled a few and I have even touched a couple of LS engines. I built a 402 for a local guy, that used an aluminum GTO block and a set of AFR heads that put down 500 hp at the tires in a late model Camaro. He picked it up on a Saturday morning, had it in the car and dyno'd by Monday and placed 3rd in a field of 83 cars (one of those races where they do the 1/4 mile, auto-cross, etc., all at once) the following Saturday.
However, I could have done the same thing with a 402 inch Windsor.
What got in my craw was when someone said that the LS engine was superior to anything Ford ever had or has now. Obviously it was a statement born out of emotion, as there are *zero* engines out there that are superior to all others. As mentioned above, each engine family has their own "perks".
If you want to look at modern muscle car performance, then I would have to give the nod to the Modular Ford engine.
If you want to look at compatibility and pricing, then I think a lot of Chevy engines get the nod.
If you want to look at which engines have tried and trued longevity, then there are several that would fit that bill, but I don't think I'd reach for an engine that has only been out since 1996-1997 (both Mod Ford and LS), I'd reach for something that has been beat on since the 60's.
In my mind it's hard to beat a big inch Windsor with Cleveland heads. IMO, that's the best compromise of physical size, horsepower, available displacement, originality, etc. However, also in my opinion, it has no place in a Cobra...
83Likes
Hybrid Mode
