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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2022, 03:43 AM
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Default ERA 427 Steering Adjustment

Hello,

I recently got a 4 wheel alignment on my ERA #575. Car drives smooth, no shimmies or problems tracking the car straight. However, I noticed that when pushing the performance and applying harder steering on curvy roads, the steering feels much less linear, like I'm tracking into a turn at say 40-50mph and when the normal instinct is to start increasing my turning of the wheel, the car doesn't turn without over steering the steering wheel. So as you transition from a straight stretch of road to a gradually increasing radius, you need to apply a disproportionate turn of the steering wheel. It feels like there is play in the wheel yet on straight driving, I can jiggle the steering wheel and the car noticebly moves left and right. I could see this performance in turns being an excessive play in the steering but it only displays this excessive play in the turns. Curious if anyone has experienced this and if there is an adjustment people have done to remedy this situation.

Thanks
Frank in Connecticut
ERA 575
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Old 10-14-2022, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankym View Post
Hello,

I recently got a 4 wheel alignment on my ERA #575. Car drives smooth, no shimmies or problems tracking the car straight. However, I noticed that when pushing the performance and applying harder steering on curvy roads, the steering feels much less linear, like I'm tracking into a turn at say 40-50mph and when the normal instinct is to start increasing my turning of the wheel, the car doesn't turn without over steering the steering wheel. So as you transition from a straight stretch of road to a gradually increasing radius, you need to apply a disproportionate turn of the steering wheel. It feels like there is play in the wheel yet on straight driving, I can jiggle the steering wheel and the car noticebly moves left and right. I could see this performance in turns being an excessive play in the steering but it only displays this excessive play in the turns. Curious if anyone has experienced this and if there is an adjustment people have done to remedy this situation.

Thanks
Frank in Connecticut
ERA 575

Quite a few items can cause the lack of feel, so let me ask a few questions:


Age of tires
Make and model of tires
Ambient temperature outside
Mileage on your chassis/build
Maintenance to suspension (IE: lube as an example, tightening/checking all connections, an alignment shop may not know enough about your build to check everything)


We will start with these basics, then go from there.


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Old 10-14-2022, 06:11 AM
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Your alignment is likely off. I think your caster and camber are not the same on both sides.

John
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Old 10-14-2022, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankym View Post
Hello,

I recently got a 4 wheel alignment on my ERA #575. Car drives smooth, no shimmies or problems tracking the car straight. However, I noticed that when pushing the performance and applying harder steering on curvy roads, the steering feels much less linear, like I'm tracking into a turn at say 40-50mph and when the normal instinct is to start increasing my turning of the wheel, the car doesn't turn without over steering the steering wheel. So as you transition from a straight stretch of road to a gradually increasing radius, you need to apply a disproportionate turn of the steering wheel. It feels like there is play in the wheel yet on straight driving, I can jiggle the steering wheel and the car noticebly moves left and right. I could see this performance in turns being an excessive play in the steering but it only displays this excessive play in the turns. Curious if anyone has experienced this and if there is an adjustment people have done to remedy this situation.

Thanks
Frank in Connecticut
ERA 575

Hi Frank,

If you know the settings the alignment shop used (ex: caster, camber, toe) it might help to include here for perspective. Just curious, where you indicate that when you jiggle the wheel and the car noticeably moves left or right, do you recall if on similar jiggle before did it move any more or less to the left and right? Am I correct to assume that you don't have a variable adjust steering/effort type system and that they didn't change the steering rack bushings?

Thanks, Brent
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Old 10-14-2022, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmustang View Post
Quite a few items can cause the lack of feel, so let me ask a few questions:


Age of tires
Make and model of tires
Ambient temperature outside
Mileage on your chassis/build
Maintenance to suspension (IE: lube as an example, tightening/checking all connections, an alignment shop may not know enough about your build to check everything)


We will start with these basics, then go from there.
And add to that a picture of the rack itself. 575 is an older girl -- it could very well have an original Subaru rack in there.
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Old 10-14-2022, 09:37 AM
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Tires are Mickey Thompson Radials 15s all around 235 in front and 295 in rear.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render...&ts=1665765397


https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render...&ts=1665765397
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Old 10-14-2022, 09:53 AM
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Those pics look like the the Flaming River #FR1502 that they mill down a bit to mimic the size of the original Subaru rack. So, never mind.
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Old 10-14-2022, 09:59 AM
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Now, I can't imagine you would miss munged up rack bushings while taking your pics, and it doesn't look like they're bad from your pics anyway, but check this thread out from where I replaced mine. It doesn't hurt to just double check.
Bob P. - What's Wrong with this Picture?
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Old 10-14-2022, 10:31 AM
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I don't think my bushings look great, so it probably wouldn't hurt to replace the bushings. here is a better picture.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render...&ts=1665768635
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Old 10-14-2022, 10:33 AM
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Patrick, from your post... could you confirm which parts you ordered (assuming the ones you listed were correct).

*~~*~~*~~*~~
OK, after more than a decade, maybe it's time to replace my steering rack mounting bushings. I ordered Energy Suspension #15.10.199.39, which I think is the right part, but they don't give you pictures on the Energy Suspension parts web site, so you kinda have to shoot in the dark. I'll know when they come. Do you guys put any grease on these bushings? Or do you install them dry? Am I going to need to drop the rack, or am I going to be able to squeeze them in after just taking off the brackets? And, yes, I see those funky little spacers in there under the bracket -- I'll try not to lose them, but no guaranties.
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Old 10-14-2022, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankym View Post
Patrick, from your post... could you confirm which parts you ordered (assuming the ones you listed were correct).
They were not correct. They weren't even close in fact. You have to call Bob and have him send them to. He's got a whole box of them in the closet left over. You can't buy them at the auto parts store either.
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Old 10-14-2022, 10:43 AM
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If one of the bushings is round, the other "D" shaped, they are duplicates of the Subaru rack that we used many years ago. We had a bunch custom molded. Send me a PM.
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Old 10-14-2022, 10:58 AM
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Maybe like this?

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Old 10-14-2022, 03:39 PM
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I had an issue with 649, the rack would slide back and forth under pressure.
I would turn, then on a straight the steering wheel would be crooked, turn the other way and the wheel would be crooked the other way. If the rack is twisting in the frame on turns the steering could feel very strange. New bushings fixed the issue on my car. My new ERA car uses a Mustang 2 rack mounted with through bolts, a much better setup. You night want to make sure the shaft bushings in the rack and the inner tie rod ends are tight.
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Old 10-14-2022, 04:31 PM
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You'll note in the vids that I posted in the thread that is referenced above that I put a magnetic dial gauge on the rack and measured it both before and after my repairs. There actually is a relatively common industry standard out there for steering rack slop. OK, they don't call it steering rack slop but that's what it is. And they like to call them “steering gear insulators” and “steering gear isolators.” If you don't use their particular lingo then they won't tell you what the slop value is. Regardless of their specs, less slop is better than more slop. Here is one shop manual:


Quote:
Check for movement with the front wheels normally loaded (on the ground). If the housing moves more than 1.5mm (0.06 inch) the steering gear isolators may have deteriorated or the steering gear mounting bracket nuts should be tightened to 37-52 N-m (27-38 lbs-ft). If the housing movement is still excessive after tightening the steering gear mounting bracket, replace the steering gear isolators.
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Old 10-15-2022, 09:21 AM
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Default Problem solved

Ok, I think I solved my issue. From the Youtube links Patrick provided, I could see that the old style rack mounting allowed for way too much slippage inside the C clamps. I will show a before and after. In the before, there was a 1/4 inch sway and now: 0. It's not as pretty as I would like it to be but I made a square clamp to attach to the rack as an anchor point and welded 2 studs onto the outer plate. I made 3/8 rod connectors with stainless fender washers and bolted them to one of the C clamps. Posting videos in a minute.
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Old 10-15-2022, 09:25 AM
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https://youtu.be/wo04Mx57c44

https://youtu.be/ngwbyzcg-a0
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Old 10-15-2022, 09:58 AM
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That's quite a difference. From that first vid the slop is clearly too much and the passenger side bushing looks particularly bad. Let us know the results of a hard corner to the left and whether the wheel returns to the same spot. Then repeat to the right, and then try and drift a hairpin at a 110 like Morris and report back.
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Old 10-15-2022, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankym View Post
That is a huge amount of movement pre-fix, can't say I've ever seen so much on any of my Cobras.

As Patrick has already pointed out, that passenger side bushing needs to be replaced. I suggest you do both at the same time and be done with them.


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Old 10-15-2022, 04:21 PM
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What would be the anticipated effect if the rack is hard mounted (ie no bushing)?
It's a Cobra, after all

Cheers,
Glen
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