Originality - why stroke your 427?

[xb-60]

There’s a current thread here on Club Cobra about the sale of CSX4158

Alloy CSX4158 Fpor Sale

On the sale site…

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...x/2112904.html

…part of the description reads:
“Countless hours spent insuring that this car duplicates the original in all respects”


Then I read in the engine description that the engine is a “Shelby American 427FE V8 aluminum block stroked to 468 cid”
Checking my registry, CSX4158 was built in 2000 and has been sold a number of times, as well as having been rebuilt due to flood damage, so if I make a couple of comments about originality, I’m assuming that I won’t be offending the original owner.

My comments/questions:
OK, so the decision to go with a new aluminium block is taken (when original cast iron 427 FE SO’s would have been reasonably easily available), but why stroke it and lose originality? Is there not enough power developed by a 427 FE SO (or a 428 FE)? I’m looking at an Autocar road test from 1967 of a 427 Cobra, and the comment is “The back tyres spun nearly all the way to 60-odd mph in 1st” and “we paced out the black marks later and found that they went on for a conservative 60 yards”.
Is this not enough power for you ‘strokers’ . Maybe you have stocks/shares in Goodyear?
Back in 1967, the 427 Cobra was compared very favorably in acceleration terms to a Ferrari 365GTB/4 (Daytona), so my question is why stroke the 427 for even more power? You’re losing out on originality, and also losing out on driveability….yes/no?

Looking forward to the “2 cents worth”

Cheers,
Glen

[Alfa02]

You know me Glen, I'll add my $.02. As a owner of a date coded 427SO, My mech. would shoot me if I even brought up the subject, of a overbore. Mine is quite happy, as I am being "just a 427'. Besides it hard to find 468, 486 or what ever side badge's I know why you did this, you just wanted to say something, to get a reaction You been too quiet lately Everything good with you??? Cheers Tom.

[xb-60]

OK. You've got me worked out Tom.
It has indeed been too quiet lately on the forum. Where are all the good build threads?
Oh, there's mine....just that there's been not much happening there that warrants pictures being posted yet....but stuff is happening.

Oh, and sounds like you have the right mechanic.

So come on you guys! If it was good enough for fitment in the Ford GT (40) Mk II and Mk IV that won at LM in '66 and '67 .....why does it need stroking?

My two cents worth in reply

Cheers,
Glen

[BAsque1]

My Cobra has a 427 SO the car weighs 2800 lbs with a full 20 gal tank and me inside (260 lbs) I think that the power weight ratio is more than enough unless you have a death wish or not in touch with reality. How much power is enough? I guess it is never enough for some. With my current set up my car was dynoed at 550 hp, I am more than happy with that the engine has never been bored from std bore.
My .02 cents on this topic and my personal opinion, not intended for it to become an argument.
Regards
Lou, II

[Mongoose930]

The main reason I chose to stroke my engine was to achieve sufficient horsepower / torque numbers without running a radical cam, high compression, high RPM, etc. I have learned over the years that I would rather drive my car than work on it all the time or deal with super high octane fuel, overheating issues, etc. My engine displaces 482 cubic engines but has just over 10:1 compression and a "mild" cam with roller rockers. No drama but over 550 HP / TQ.

I spent a lot of time making the outside of my 427FE look original but no one can tell it has been stroked by looking at it:

Video: Survival Motorsports And 482 Cubic Inches Of FE Fury - EngineLabs

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by xb-60

I’m looking at an Autocar road test from 1967 of a 427 Cobra, and the comment is “The back tyres spun nearly all the way to 60-odd mph in 1st” and “we paced out the black marks later and found that they went on for a conservative 60 yards”.

Remember that this was done with 1960's technology. Tires and suspension are significantly more advanced now than then. Half a century makes a big difference.

There's no such thing as too much power. Only not enough control.

[ScratchBuilder]

Tires are better but gas is certainly not these days. Add stroke n lower compression to keep hp and have a car you can run on pump gas and be ok in traffic too. That said if i had mint 427 parts to work with I may have done that over a 482 initially, but my 500hp 482 is as smooth as can be I dont think I would go back.

SB

[Dumpling]

Because explaining how the car before them only looks like an original isn't enough for some owners, they want continue the discourse by explaining how the engine (and trans?) are also not like the original's?

Sometimes I think it's more about bench racing than anything else. I've wondered why you never see anyone destroking a 427, maybe with a 3.5" steel FT crank, to make a screamer instead of a torquer, seems like that might be a better overall package.

I would be worried about 48IDA Webers being able to support much more displacement. I thought they were pretty near their limit at 427 cubic inches.

[DanEC]

I wanted an engine with good street manners but also one that would work well with the low riser dual quad 427 intake which is a torque generator. KC recommended going with the SCAT crank and Chevy rods and felt it was a pretty much bullet proof combination. I think there was a warranty agenda there too - he felt more confident that it would have less chance of returning to his shop with new parts, than if we went with a used and reconditioned crank and rods. And I was a bit curious since I had not owned a stroked motor before but I had had experience with Ford modular motor cars (Lightning and Mustang GT) and was pretty surprised how well these long stroke motors ran.

[Large Arbor]

Glen,

My take is that once he went with the aluminum block, the originality went out the window. I have an Shelby aluminum block at 468 CID and about 520 HP and torque. With the engine I have, I find I can spin tires pretty easily. I also have the mild compression at 10:1 and a mild hydraulic cam and it runs great on pump gas. I cannot speak for others, but the setup works well. No one would know the true CID without looking at the build sheets so why not?

Phil

[RockBit]

Original cars with the 427 SO had a compression ratio of 11.6. Running that CR today would exclude the use of pump gas. My 10.0 ratio 482 with mild cam uses pump gas and has more power and torque than the original cars did. It ihas good street manners and is also scary fast when I want it to be. It's perfect.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

My take is that once he went with a REPLICA, the originality went out the window.

FIFY.

"Originality" of a replica?

Also, with all the bling under the hood? Looks like the process of "accuracy" might take a few more dollars for the next owner.

[patrickt]

... and there are only a handful of guys on this board that even open the secondaries more than twice a summer anymore.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

... and there are only a handful of guys on this board that even open the secondaries more than twice a summer anymore.

I always open up my tertiaries.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I always open up my tertiaries.

Uhhh, is that anything like a cat's anal sacs? I know we've had problems like that from time to time.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Uhhh, is that anything like a cat's anal sacs? I know we've had problems like that from time to time.

I once knew a guy by the name of Katnutsack.

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

Remember that this was done with 1960's technology. Tires and suspension are significantly more advanced now than then. Half a century makes a big difference.

There's no such thing as too much power. Only not enough control.

I started a thread quite a few years ago titled something like "How much power is enough?" and as I remember it, I got caned for saying that a Cobra replica could actually have too much power, to the extent that it lost its 'driveability'.

Then there's the favorable comparison with the Ferrari Daytona....in standard form, the 427 was quicker....so another question - is there a point where power affects drivability and also the enjoyment factor of the car as a whole?

Cheers!
Glen

[twobjshelbys]

Way back when I remember hearing about an engine with larger displacement than the original the question always was "what happened that you had to bore it out (and usually sleeve it)?" In other words, something happened and the engine got rebuilt. Now with some it's become a standard practice. Not sure what the benefits are. For example, the Dodge Hemi 6.2 is a bored/stroked 5.7. When the 5.7 first appeared in the Challenger many after market superchargers were available. Hardly any of them were recommended for the 6.2 the S/C guys saying the cylinder walls were thinner and that the 5.7 was capable of higher hp without damage.

I had a personal issue justifying such high HP in a Cobra. Mine was 550 and it was impossible to put that much power reliably and safely to the wheels (tires). Maybe with slicks but with the Goodyears that were on my car it was dicey.

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by xb-60

...so another question - is there a point where power affects drivability and also the enjoyment factor of the car as a whole?

Cheers!
Glen

Depends. If you want to get 550hp out of a 289, then it would be so radical that it would be tough to drive and probably not that much fun. But 550 hp out of big block stroker is pretty mellow.

The theoretical big block stroker only makes 550hp when you want it to. Only when you mash the go pedal. Other than that, it makes a lot less power. There's that whole control thing again.

[aeon]

So since my 427 is stroked with a 428 crank does that make it almost stock or stockish enough???