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Kirkham Motorsports

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  • 1 Post By mrmustang
  • 1 Post By my427cobra

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2019, 12:28 PM
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Default Stelling & Hellings air cleaner effectiveness Part Deux

So I modified my S&H air cleaner by adding a perforated metal top and higher flow foam air cleaner material:



But the combination of the S&H perforated sides and the perforated metal top was still only at 36 to 39% open area.

And I wasn't sure I liked the look of it.

So I got some SS wire welded mesh cloth with 1/4" holes from McMaster Carr which has a 76% open area and fabbed some new sides and tops for the S&H replacement air cleaner:



And I think I like the look a lot better.

Now to see tomorrow if it runs better. LOL

Cheers
Greg
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Old 06-14-2019, 03:44 PM
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Both are an interesting look. Not sure which one I like better. What did you use for the top surround? What secures the foam filter material in the top from being pulled down into the carb?
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Old 06-14-2019, 03:48 PM
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Greg,

Same question, did you use wire screen on the inside to keep from drawing the mesh filter media away from the outer wire screen?


Ed
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Old 06-14-2019, 04:44 PM
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Well, you're keeping busy, and hopefully having fun, BUT, as far as I'm concerned, the both look like crap.

There is nothing as beautiful, as CHROME, the chrome top/lid is correct ans just looks RIGHT
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:41 PM
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Greg, not to back up here but did you happen to try using the stock S&H air cleaner without the foam element for a test? (just the screens)
I'm curious how it performed with no foam. You could then add different foams and see how it was effected.
Larry
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:44 PM
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Has anybody ever put these on a flow bench to evaluate how restrictive they really are - or aren't?

Edit: I just found this, posted to https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fac...r-cleaner.html by 'mrmustang'. Hmmm....

Back to the original question, and dating back over 18 years
427 center oiler, 10:2:1 compression, 650 holley DB (already dyno tuned) fairly mild street cam as a base for the test on a "chassis" (not engine) dyno. This was done as we were baselining a new chassis dyno at a friends shop and thought it would be interesting to be able to show his customers the difference of what something as simple as an air cleaner could make.

My notes are as follows:

no air cleaner: 322hp
then 14X2 "K&N" air cleaner: 314hp
then 14X4 "green" air cleaner with drop base:324hp
then Stelling and Heller air cleaner (stock filters as we did not have K&N or Green filters in stock at the time):302hp

All of the above were done one after the other. No tweaks or changes where done to the carb or engine timing. Strictly a demonstration for about 20 customers who were at the shop that Saturday. All HP above was measured at the rear wheels.

The car was ERA321, dark blue metallic, running a toploader 4spd and 3:31 rear gear ratio.



Second Strike Air Cleaner Calculator: https://www.secondstrike.com/Technic...leanerCalc.asp
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Last edited by cycleguy55; 06-15-2019 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleguy55 View Post
Has anybody ever put these on a flow bench to evaluate how restrictive they really are - or aren't?

Edit: I just found this, posted to https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fac...r-cleaner.html by 'mrmustang'. Hmmm....

Back to the original question, and dating back over 18 years
427 center oiler, 10:2:1 compression, 650 holley DB (already dyno tuned) fairly mild street cam as a base for the test on a "chassis" (not engine) dyno. This was done as we were baselining a new chassis dyno at a friends shop and thought it would be interesting to be able to show his customers the difference of what something as simple as an air cleaner could make.

My notes are as follows:

no air cleaner: 322hp
then 14X2 "K&N" air cleaner: 314hp
then 14X4 "green" air cleaner with drop base:324hp
then Stelling and Heller air cleaner (stock filters as we did not have K&N or Green filters in stock at the time):302hp

All of the above were done one after the other. No tweaks or changes where done to the carb or engine timing. Strictly a demonstration for about 20 customers who were at the shop that Saturday. All HP above was measured at the rear wheels.

The car was ERA321, dark blue metallic, running a toploader 4spd and 3:31 rear gear ratio.



Second Strike Air Cleaner Calculator: https://www.secondstrike.com/Technic...leanerCalc.asp
I can confirm those where actual results, less then a few minutes apart on a brand new Dynojet chassis dyno. Real world, real wheel HP data. Somewhere in my old files I may have the torque numbers to go along with this.
As a side note, the numbers above where done before we had a K&N or Green Filter-14" filter top. The filter top would had a huge amount of airflow vs the chrome lid that was used at the time of the chassis dyno runs.

Bill S.
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Old 06-16-2019, 04:25 AM
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I prefer a big diameter and deep air filter.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:32 AM
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OK folks, I'll try to answer your questions in the order you posted:

DanEC: the chrome ring supporting the SS mesh was made from a Speedway air cleaner/funnel assembly that I covered in detail in my previous S&H thread.
Here are a couple of pics:




eschaider: yes, there is a SS mesh screen below the top foam to support the foam. The top and bottom SS mesh screen are "trapped" in the chrome ring by lips which are formed on the ring See above pic.

CSX3183: back to bling for you with the chrome tops back on:



cycleguy55: I'm surprised that it was only a 20 hp (6%) difference. Two equal cars with one having a 20 hp difference would be well outside the driver's skill differential on a typical track.

LMH: yes, a higher flow foam in the S&H air cleaners with the perforated sides might make a difference. But the perforated metal side have only a 36% open area. A lot of restriction. The SS mesh sides have a 79% open area, and that combined with higher flow foam (30ppi) and a screened top is a BIG improvement. Effectively a 368% improvement ( and probably more due to the higher flow foam).

So how did my car perform? Well I didn't dyno it. But on my drive yesterday there was a noticeable improvement in the crispness of the throttle response and the smoothness of the acceleration.

I believe my car was running too rich with the restrictive S&H perforated sides and chrome top, so I'm going into a tune-up shop the check out the carb settings and see what I can learn.

Cheers
Greg
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleguy55 View Post
Has anybody ever put these on a flow bench to evaluate how restrictive they really are - or aren't?

Edit: I just found this, posted to https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fac...r-cleaner.html by 'mrmustang'. Hmmm....

Back to the original question, and dating back over 18 years
427 center oiler, 10:2:1 compression, 650 holley DB (already dyno tuned) fairly mild street cam as a base for the test on a "chassis" (not engine) dyno. This was done as we were baselining a new chassis dyno at a friends shop and thought it would be interesting to be able to show his customers the difference of what something as simple as an air cleaner could make.

My notes are as follows:

no air cleaner: 322hp
then 14X2 "K&N" air cleaner: 314hp
then 14X4 "green" air cleaner with drop base:324hp
then Stelling and Heller air cleaner (stock filters as we did not have K&N or Green filters in stock at the time):302hp

All of the above were done one after the other. No tweaks or changes where done to the carb or engine timing. Strictly a demonstration for about 20 customers who were at the shop that Saturday. All HP above was measured at the rear wheels.

The car was ERA321, dark blue metallic, running a toploader 4spd and 3:31 rear gear ratio.



Second Strike Air Cleaner Calculator: https://www.secondstrike.com/Technic...leanerCalc.asp

It would be interesting to see a similar comparison on a car with dual 600 quads. One of these S&H filters does seem horribly inadequate (it's basically a Yugo size air cleaner) but my own rational is two of them with a pleated air filters and no restrictive screens on a 500 HP motor would not suffer as much loss. The twin 600 cfm carbs would certainly seem under taxed feeding a 428- 460 FE with a peak rpm in the mid - to high 5,000 rpm range.
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Old 06-16-2019, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my427cobra View Post
LMH: yes, a higher flow foam in the S&H air cleaners with the perforated sides might make a difference. But the perforated metal side have only a 36% open area. A lot of restriction. The SS mesh sides have a 79% open area, and that combined with higher flow foam (30ppi) and a screened top is a BIG improvement. Effectively a 368% improvement ( and probably more due to the higher flow foam).

Cheers
Greg
I don't have an S&H air cleaner as used on the big block to compare but I have a set for a small block with dual quads. (actually two sets) Assuming the screen is the same, the perforated steel is 3/16" holes on 1/4" staggered centers. The open area is 51%. That's on original Stelling and Hellings air cleaners, not a replication. Is that the same as used on the larger S&H air cleaner?

Larry
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Old 06-16-2019, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanEC View Post
It would be interesting to see a similar comparison on a car with dual 600 quads. One of these S&H filters does seem horribly inadequate (it's basically a Yugo size air cleaner) but my own rational is two of them with a pleated air filters and no restrictive screens on a 500 HP motor would not suffer as much loss. The twin 600 cfm carbs would certainly seem under taxed feeding a 428- 460 FE with a peak rpm in the mid - to high 5,000 rpm range.
When my Cobra was first ready to drive, it had a single 4-bbl. on a Sidewinder manifold with 1 S&H air filter.

Several years later I put a 2x4's Tunnel Wedge intake on it, and installed a 2nd S&H air filter. Couldn't believe it was the same engine. Very noticeable seat of the pants feel.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:21 AM
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Larry. I think it is the same size so let's use the 51% number. Still a big improvement going to a 79% SS mesh.

And of course the SS mesh top ads a lot.

Cheers
Greg
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my427cobra View Post
Larry. I think it is the same size so let's use the 51% number. Still a big improvement going to a 79% SS mesh.

And of course the SS mesh top ads a lot.

Cheers
Greg
Definitely! I was more curious if the air cleaner had ever been tested with just the screen in place and no foam, then adding different foams to see what flowed the best. Like you say though, its not going to equal the top flowing air as well, I was just thinking of originality.
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:01 AM
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What do you think the benefit would be if the Stelling & Hellings air cleaner
unit was used with the K&N 2570 filter but with the restrictive drilled steel screen
removed...no screen at all...just the filter holding up the chrome lid. This
has to increase the air flow somewhat and the stock look would be largely
preserved. Too bad dyno time is so expensive or we could get some more
definitive answers!
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:33 PM
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Hi Kit Coyle. In the previous posting I started on the S&H air filters I showed this comparison:



And a cheap K-mart paper air filter fowed almost as well as a K&N in a dyno test.

It's all about ppi (pores per inch).

The K&N filter you suggest is too high for my application and, well truth be told, I don't like the purple color.

So I'm zeroing in on my SS mesh sides and top and high flow foam filters.

Next stop: I'll get to work on my hood scoop mold and make my hood scoop.



Cheers
Greg
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:03 PM
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What everybody needs is the largest restrictive air filter (pores per inch) that you can fit, versus the tiny open pore filters that "flow better" simply because they are a sieve, a strainer to let the grit through.

I hope those that run foam or cotton, do oil their filter correctly.

Gary
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:20 AM
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Gary is right. Oiling the filter and periodic cleaning is important.

Cheers
Greg
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