Kirkham vs Shelby

[nkb]

Status as of December 6, 2023

Almost to the day, 2 years after placement of my order, my CSX alloy roller has just departed Hi Tech in South Africa. Headed east with stops in the UAE, India and China before arriving in Los Angeles. Seven weeks in transit with 3 different ships. In a 40 foot container with another CSX 8000, a CSX 7000, and a GT40.

Current position by satellite on the open sea is between Mozambique and Madagascar.

By the time the car gets to me it will have more than circumnavigated the earth. Poland to Provo, to Norfolk,VA to South Africa to India to China and back to the US. Well over 30,000 miles before it ever hits the pavement.

I don't know exactly when the body/frame was created by Kirkham in Poland as the roller already existed in Utah when I placed my order. But, from scratch it has probably been on the order of 2.5 years and counting. By the time it gets here for finishing (including drivetrain, paint, SB 100 registration) it will easily be 3+ years in the making.

The current process to supply an alloy Shelby CSX is incredibly inefficient and time consuming. It took 7 months alone to accomplish shipping the already partially assembled roller from Utah to South Africa. Then another 17 months on site in South Africa.

Along the way I was promised a much, much shorter time frame by the powers that be. Still to go, 7 weeks transit to the US and then further outfitting in Irvine of the Kirkham diff, wheels/tires, seat belts, etc. And then finally to my garage in Northern California where I can get to work fitting the drivetrain and finishing everything else.

Carroll accomplished the production of an original alloy Cobra much, much faster 60 years ago! Incredibly, the entire production of 655 original leaf spring CSX's took substantially less time than my single car!

[Jamo]

20 years ago, I just went and picked it up.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by nkb

Status as of December 6, 2023

...
In a 40 foot container with another CSX 8000, a CSX 7000, and a GT40.

Current position by satellite on the open sea is between Mozambique and Madagascar.

I'm having visions of the ship getting attacked by Somali pirates and seeing 4 Shelbys sprouting sand roostertails driven around the desert.

Patience is a virtue!!!

[nkb]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I'm having visions of the ship getting attacked by Somali pirates and seeing 4 Shelbys sprouting sand roostertails driven around the desert.

Patience is a virtue!!!

I did in fact think about Somali pirates as the ship will be off that coast. I quickly determined that the piracy has been sharply curtailed over the past 2 years. Hopefully that holds.

But I did also determine that the current ship was involved in an accident in August and taken out of service. Now recommissioned with the cars onboard. Also, hopefully all is ok.

It’s a fraught world.

[CSX2345]

Houthi Rebels are going after cargo ships as well. Multiple commercial ships have been hit with cruise missiles recently.

Hopefully yours stays clear of the Red Sea.

Your aluminum 289 looks great, btw.

Why did it need to ship to Hi Tech?

I would think the good folks at Kirkham could have brought the car up to a full roller state in considerably less time and keep it somewhat local.

Cheers

[Harpoon PV2]

Originally Posted by nkb

Status as of December 6, 2023


Carroll accomplished the production of an original alloy Cobra much, much faster 60 years ago! Incredibly, the entire production of 655 original leaf spring CSX's took substantially less time than my single car!

The first letter from Shelby arrived at AC Thames Ditton on September 8, 1961. The engine arrived in early November, and work started on what was then called Ace 3.6 a couple of weeks latter. A quick shake down run of what was then called, CSX2000 and off to Heathrow, on February 16, 1962, bound for LAX and finally, Dean Moon's shop, to stuff the engine and tranny, plus lots of tuning! Man, don't you wish we could get any new Cobra that fast? Cheers, Dennis

[nkb]

Originally Posted by CSX2345

Houthi Rebels are going after cargo ships as well.
Why did it need to ship to Hi Tech?

I would think the good folks at Kirkham could have brought the car up to a full roller state in considerably less time and keep it somewhat local.

Cheers

These were my thoughts as well, to have the car done by David Kirkham. I made the same argument with Shelby that the car did not need to go to Hi Tech. Especially since I was not having it painted. But, I could not convince them in the end because apparently it would cut into (possibly wipe out) their margin. Production at Hi Tech apparently being less costly.

I will say that I believe that Hi Tech has done a nice job on the car from what I can tell from afar. I chose not to paint the car there although they are known for excellent (and reasonable cost) paint. I didn't want to choose the color yet and I also have an excellent painter local to me. Kirkham also recommended painting the car after my assembly to avoid likely blemishes from the installation process. I will be drilling/modifying holes in the body for various original items not included on the standard roller (Ceandess gas cap, correct central mirror, NOS screen jets, grab handle, Talbot Berlin Jr side view mirror, Shelby teardrop bonnet locks, ...) .

[CSX2345]

Too bad Shelby wouldn't work with you. Hi Tech's labor rate must be $5 hr. to balance out all the shipping back and forth around the world.

I'm sure your car will come out great. I watched a video on CSX2190 recently. Can't go wrong with Guardsman Blue with black interior.

[sunman]

Minimum wage is $1.35 in South Africa.

[Dominik]

You won't find a minimum wage mechanic in SA.

Don't know their location costs in St. Alban, but work on $30 per hour.
OEM charge $40 to $60 per hour to service your car.

[nkb]

Originally Posted by CSX2345

Houthi Rebels are going after cargo ships as well. Multiple commercial ships have been hit with cruise missiles recently.

Hopefully yours stays clear of the Red Sea.

The container with my car cleared any Somali pirates and avoided the Red Sea. The Suez Canal is effectively closed now with most major carriers suspending operations in the area.

My container just docked in Dubai, having made it from South Africa, and is now headed to India to be transferred on to a Chinese ship. Then to Shanghai area to be transferred again to a Liberian registered ship bound for the US.

It also turns out that the Panama Canal, if the container had gone west from South Africa instead of east is suffering significant congestion and delays because of drought and low water levels.

What a struggle !

[Harpoon PV2]

Good thing the odometer can't register all those miles! Cheers, Dennis

[CompFi]

Originally Posted by nkb

What a struggle !

NKB - sorry to hear of the ongoing Odyssey for your car.

Glad to hear that it has cleared the pirates!

And easy for me to say since I am not the one enduring the extended timetable, but not only will this experience enhance the stories you can tell at meet ups, but hopefully enhance the value too.

As in, who else will want to repeat this ordeal??

[Mark IV]

Not so bad. I had a container of Superformance cars I paid for arrive in Newark. Customs cleared them before they land as usually happens. Container gets into the port storage. Container is marked as "unloaded" despite it not being so. Container is now loaded on a ship as "empty" and sent to Singapore. Realization of FUBAR happens and now container goes to Asia, gets offloaded, reloaded and finally returned to West Coast. My fault, no, but I must pay container "demiurge" fees and other costs! When they have you buy the stones, you are theirs!

[nkb]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Not so bad. I had a container of Superformance cars I paid for arrive in Newark. Customs cleared them before they land as usually happens. Container gets into the port storage. Container is marked as "unloaded" despite it not being so. Container is now loaded on a ship as "empty" and sent to Singapore. Realization of FUBAR happens and now container goes to Asia, gets offloaded, reloaded and finally returned to West Coast. My fault, no, but I must pay container "demiurge" fees and other costs! When they have you buy the stones, you are theirs!

Rick,

Wow. That's a sad story I hope to not see repeated!

Latest on my saga is that the schedule has changed. Different ships now assigned from India where the container has already landed. Now going through Singapore, instead of China. But, the ships are not coordinated to meet up so a delay of 11 more days now forecast. Won't arrive until February now.

But, what concerns me is that the ship that is supposed to pick up the container in Singapore is still in the Mediterranean and scheduled to go through the Suez Canal and the Red Sea where rockets are flying and most shipping companies have curtailed operations. So I really wonder if the assigned ship will actually arrive to take the container from Singapore to the US.

All out of my control. The daily tracking is a geography lesson and a window on the uncertain state of the world.

[Mark IV]

Yes,

I hope to never see it repeated as well! Those who deal with international shipping will all have their own horror stories! How about paying demurrage on a container that was ready to move, but the forwarder couldn't get a truck/chassis for the move, so we pay for demurrage because they couldn't perform their part of the contract!

Or when the driver couldn't pass the customs inspection so was refused entry into the port to collect our container. My fault, my agent said I should have known that his driver, who I have never met, talked to or otherwise have any interaction with was not acceptable!

[nkb]

Update on Cobra shipping.

The shipping company (CMA CGM) sent their ship through the Suez Canal and the Red Sea. This ship is scheduled to pick up my container in Singapore and transport it to the US. With a naval escort and turning off their satellite transponder, so their location could not be targeted, they have made it through. After 3+ days incommunicado, the ship just reestablished satellite communication and is now 500 miles offshore out of range of the Houthi rockets/drones.

The effect on global shipping is going to ripple for some time with increased costs and delays. My one little story of delay is nothing compared to the global economic ramifications. Many, if not most, shipping companies are not braving the Red Sea situation.

In hindsight, my car could have gone from South Africa to the US East Coast by ship and then by rail/truck to California. Much faster and safer. That is how my roller went from Utah (Kirkham) to South Africa in the first place. No canals involved (Suez or Panama) and no war zones.

[nkb]

Shipping update.

Shipping is further delayed.

Now a fourth ship involved with added stops in Viet Nam and Hong Kong before heading to the US. Container is scheduled to sit unmoved for 12 days in Hong Kong before being picked up by the final ship.

Initial transit time was scheduled at 50 days. Now 70 days. I would not be surprised if there are more changes.

Looking at the shipping records for Superformance/Shelby from Port Elizabeth to the West Coast for the past two years, there is a wide variation in transit times. The 50 days initially estimated seems to be an outlier on the short side. Some of the transits take up to 90 days. The transits to the East Coast are much, much shorter. I wish I had enough advance information to have insisted on that route by sea and then by land (train, truck) from the East to the West. Would have shaved a month or so off.

The car initially took that route in reverse, going from Utah to Norfolk, VA by rail and then by ship to South Africa. That took 46 days altogether.

Of course, this ignores the fundamental question of why the car needed to go to South Africa in the first place except to save on production costs. I found out later that I could have had the car finished by Kirkham except that Shelby would have wanted another 18% surcharge for the privilege. A lot of money added on to the alloy price but I would have had the car a year or so earlier. I was not offered the surcharge route but I was also being told the car would be finished in South Africa in 2022! Actually the car ended up being in South Africa June 2022 to December 2023. Promises of a dedicated production team for the alloy cars that could turn them around in 30 days were absurdly inaccurate.

It appears to me that instead of any special treatment for the alloy cars they were placed in the production queue when they arrived in SA as if they were a new order, just placed. No recognition of the 7 months that had already transpired since ordered (for me) and 19 months for another alloy customer.

The alloy 289 cars are a minor item in the grand production scheme. The bread and butter fiberglass cars are turned out in measurable number.s. An alloy 289 CSX car is only produced 1-2 times/year, at least via the SA route.

[patrickt]

Since you placed your order in December of 2021 I think I fair time for having it on the street is going to be two and half years. Turnkey ERAs are running around that time, maybe a bit longer.

[patrickt]

Of course I didn't have to buy marine insurance for mine.