Painter Inquiry

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by EZ$

Well as far as cure on the fiberglass, I received this body from Bruce back in, I believe, 2013/2014, so cure should not be an issue. Also because of space issues, the body spent most of its days outside. As far as color, I am going with a dark green, no metallic, no stripes. Hard to believe there could be a problem with the color. I was an epoxy floor installer, and am familiar with resin issues, but my jobs required multiple gallons of product. I don't think that much product is needed for a cobra paint job.

This is a fairly simple mix I happen to have on my laptop, it's grabber orange, very few base materials, and what you are looking at is measured in 1/10th of a gram. This was a custom mix and tint as I had original paint under the side stripes of my old 69 GT500 I could match off of.

Looks simple, but try and pour to 1/10th of a gram accurately and you'll see the issues at hand. U7124 (150 grams worth) I had to drive 120 miles to northern, NJ to get from another shop, it was that short handed at the time I was getting ready to spray the car (two days before my shop auction). Body wise, since it was well seasoned, I cannot tell you, unless i was like the very early white body from FFR, a true nightmare to work with. Only a 100 watt bulb in a shop light underneath would tell that tale.

[John248]

Hey EZ$. My messaging isn’t working. Give me a call when you get a chance. 559-824-0277

John

[EZ$]

Hey Bill, I don't have any idea what has caused the issue. I am totally aware of your background, as I remember the threads when you were shutting down your business and moving awhile back, and I would never dispute what you are saying as I haven't got a clue about car painting. I did just see a picture of my car at the painters that I can confirm was around three months after I dropped it off. It had been pushed out into the front parking lot to languish in the hot sun all day and hadn't had a hand laid on it since I had dropped it off. I just wish he had been up front about any issues he may have been having, and if he wasn't able to start working on it for four months, I could have held onto it till he was ready for it, and I could have gotten the registration and BAR inspection completed in the meantime. It's just frustrating.

[Chupee]

Originally Posted by EZ$

Hey Bill, I don't have any idea what has caused the issue. I am totally aware of your background, as I remember the threads when you were shutting down your business and moving awhile back, and I would never dispute what you are saying as I haven't got a clue about car painting. I did just see a picture of my car at the painters that I can confirm was around three months after I dropped it off. It had been pushed out into the front parking lot to languish in the hot sun all day and hadn't had a hand laid on it since I had dropped it off. I just wish he had been up front about any issues he may have been having, and if he wasn't able to start working on it for four months, I could have held onto it till he was ready for it, and I could have gotten the registration and BAR inspection completed in the meantime. It's just frustrating.

You are a patient man! Not acceptable in my world. There are many gifted painters in the country who could have completed your job in that time. We are talking about a paint job, not a HEART TRANSPLANT! At some point, you may want to grab the car and go! Just a thought.

[Tommy]

When I ask for a time frame, I don't want to hear the "if everything works out just right" time. I want to hear the "not later than this even if I have to fly to Japan to get the stuff" time. In other words, tell me 8 months and deliver in 6 and I'm happy. Tell me 4 months and deliver in 6 and I'm not happy.

I once dealt with a local painter who was known to do good work but was notoriously slow and unreliable on delivery time. I asked him how long and he said six weeks. I asked if he would sign a contract for ten weeks and he said yes. The contract specified a discount in the price for every week longer than ten. It also specified that I could reclaim the car when it was more than 5 weeks late at no cost. In other words, he'd get no pay for any of the work done to that point. We signed it. He didn't start work until week 10. He was not finished, but working at a frantic pace, at the end of week 15. He presented it to me at the last hour . . . and it didn't pass inspection due to orange peel. I gave him another day to fix it and he did.

On another occasion I got a shop to agree to a timetable in an email. As it approached a year late I began to hint at legal action. That sped things up.

I wouldn't expect a shop with customers backed up to agree to such a deal. But asking for a time guarantee or getting the conversation in writing might get you a more accurate estimate of the actual completion time than "3 months."

[EZ$]

The thought has crossed my mind. I've also gotten so disgusted by the situation that I've considered selling the project once it's finished. It's been so long ago that I took everything apart I'll be lucky to find everything, and if I do, I'll be lucky to remember what to do with them all. Every time something is out of your control you can bet that you're not going to be happy.

[John248]

The frustrating thing is knowing that your car is basically held hostage. If I leave it, I am at the will of the painter and his “done when I get to it” timeline. On the other hand, if I pick it up (unfinished) and take to another painter, he will have to undo all the prior work and start all over again.

My biggest gripe is lack of communication. If the job is delayed because of … insert excuse here… then tell me. Don’t blow me off or ignore me when I reach out via telephone, email or text looking for an update. Be honest and give me a chance to be an advocate for your work, and not a advocate for your competition.

EZ$ like we talked about. Your car is right in front of mine and your at 47 weeks and I’m at 34 weeks. We were both told 3-4 months…..

[mrmustang]

California + Covid shutdowns I am certain may have come in to play on this thread. Automotive paint shops were not deemed "essential" during the mandatory shutdowns in California.

Bill S.

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

California + Covid shutdowns I am certain may have come in to play on this thread. Automotive paint shops were not deemed "essential" during the mandatory shutdowns in California.

Bill S.

If that is the case, then both customers should be able to get an accurate and reliable revised completion date now, correct?

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Tommy

If that is the case, then both customers should be able to get an accurate and reliable revised completion date now, correct?

Again, that depends on employee and supply chains. The specialty bodyshop business is a dying breed, not many want to actually go physical work, or get their hands dirty these days. Finding employees that actually want to work, who are not strung out on booze or drugs is getting harder and harder. As for the supply chain of materials, there is a lot going on within the manufacturing pipeline, that certain products and materials are hard to come by. Without getting political, the current administration would prefer we drive all white, plastic cars, with no paint products applied, as even the low VOC materials are not low enough for their liking. Again, California is the worst state when it comes to dealing with anything sprayed out of a paint gun...Just look at how they regulated weed eaters and backpack leaf blowers for a taste of what is happening quietly behind the scenes there. Then imagine bodyshops, skateboard, and surfboard manufacturers and you'll see just how far down the rabbit hole things are going for those industries.

Bill S.

[Tommy]

If the future for paint shops is so unpredictable, why give a completion time at all? Why not just tell the customer "I have no idea how long it may take"? . . . If being unpredictably late is the norm in this industry, it feels just dishonest to me for a shop to convince a customer to pick it for the job by providing misleading information.

I recently sought out a specialist mechanic for a job because of his reputation. When I discussed the job with him he openly told me my job would fit in between his other obligations and he could give me no promise of when it might be done. I accepted that as part of the price for picking him for the work. Two months later he had not started on it so I picked up my stuff. There were no hard feelings by either of us because we both knew going in what the arrangement was. Honesty is all I ask in a business arrangement.

[NROTOXIN]

Originally Posted by Tommy

If the future for paint shops is so unpredictable, why give a completion time at all? Why not just tell the customer "I have no idea how long it may take"? . . . If being unpredictably late is the norm in this industry, it feels just dishonest to me for a shop to convince a customer to pick it for the job by providing misleading information.

I recently sought out a specialist mechanic for a job because of his reputation. When I discussed the job with him he openly told me my job would fit in between his other obligations and he could give me no promise of when it might be done. I accepted that as part of the price for picking him for the work. Two months later he had not started on it so I picked up my stuff. There were no hard feelings by either of us because we both knew going in what the arrangement was. Honesty is all I ask in a business arrangement.

Spot on Tommy,
It's simply setting expectations so one can make an informed decision.....no surprises or disappointment wheather it works out or not.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Tommy

If the future for paint shops is so unpredictable, why give a completion time at all?

Bodyshop owners/management are not fortune tellers, especially in California, where things change hourly, not daily, weekly, or monthly in regards to everything I posted above.

Sometimes it boils down to scheduling and an overwhelmed shop with too much business. Sometimes it boils down to just bad time management skills. Sometimes it's just bad management, without being there, and laying my eyes on the business for 5 days to see how it is operating, I cannot say for certain which, or any of the above comes in to play. Regardless, everything I've posted to date on this thread still plays true.


Bill S.

[EZ$]

Well put Tommy. No excuse for what has transpired.

[EZ$]

To my knowledge, they have never been shut down by the state for covid during the time my car has been there. Other than restaurants and gyms the covid police have not shut down any other businesses across the board. Every shop may have someone out with covid, but they should be able to schedule around that if they try. Nothing explains why you would promise a customer 2-4 months for completion, and then not even start working on it for 4 months without contacting the customer to explain the reasons and give them the opportunity to choose a different shop. It sucks to lose business, but when I had my business, I never told someone I could meet a schedule and then not performed without giving them a different option. Lots of things can happen but it's unconscionable to not keep your customer informed. At this point I don't care what has happened to cause the delay. I just want to be able to complete my car while I'm still physically able to drive it!