Kirkham Raffle tickets... - Page 2

Turk · #21 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 12:50 PM

Interesting comments.

My input was to help find a way to raise as much money as possible. It sems the raffle idea is far more popular than my idea. So be it!. I am not part of the decision making, just floating some ideas.
If some fat cat wants to pay $100,000 for this car why settle for $60,000 in raffle money?

J-Man
Leave the Shelby in a sheep's clothing crap to some other thread. We are all trying to do something good in here, don't need some political point of view from someone with "3" posts, who obviously is far more familiar with the forum than a newbie would be. Do a lot of lurking in here do you? Did you change User names again!
The people can afford to own one of these probaly already do. I didn't realize the purpose of the donation was to give everyone a "chance" to win a car for $100.00 I thought it was to raise as much money as possible. If it was my charity I would want the most money from the donation not the least.

xlr8or
When it comes to actual selling of tickets, you would be unpleasantly surprised. To raise $100,000 we would have to sell 1000 at $100.oo.
Some are already talking $50.00 ticket. The task to sell 2000 tickets will become more monumental at that point. If the car was ready, and could be displayed here and there. Maybe. Brochures and photos will not sell that many tickets. I hope I am wrong. I don't need another car, I am not trying to win one I am interested in rasing as much money from such a donation as possible. I couldn't care less if I didn't win but Osama Bin Laden did, providing we raised a ton of money.
Who gets the car, where the car ends up isn't important is it?

Let's also remember the other donations there are. Possibly another car or some other sizable prizes. Are we going to sacrifice them all for the price of one ticket or have 4-5 raffles going on at the same time?

One raffle would gobble up all the prizes and donations. Not the most efficient way to raise the most money in my opinion.

We DON'T have a"year to sell tickets".

True, eBay may not bring $100,000. But we can keep the reserve high couldn't we? Buying direct from Kirkhams for $59,000 may not get the tax benefits vs. buying from a charity . It certainly won't get the engine and the transmission and the tires and wheels. $59,000 for a Kirkham.

I hope they take a bigger tax credit than that!
If the car would be ready, and can be displayed at Knotts Berry etc. than I have no arguments.
I think selling 2000 or 4000 tickets is more than a bit ambitious.

I believe we have some experience in this from the past.

look guys, I am only chiming in to see if we can make this a BIG revenue getter for the DVSFIII, not to see if one lucky guy can win a $100,000 car for $50.00.

TURK

Turk · #22 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 01:14 PM

stush
We have other prizes. I can't read DV's mind. Even if we raised $100,00 from ticket sales by the time you give the raffle winner their choices to pick and the first one obviously picking the Kirkham car and the next winner picking a lesser prize and so on, we would be giving up a lot of prizes and NOT raise as much as we could.

American Cancer Society can, but we may not be able to. I just am not subscribing to the notion to giving back to the Cobra Community. The car has to be targetted to a larger audience than what is in here. I doubt seriously we could sell 500 tickets in here. God, I hope I am wrong. We have 5 months to do so, and we haven't even agreed on how much for each ticket.

mrmustang
Bill, I have no doubts in our ability to sell 2500 at $25.00 each.
That falls way short of what the car is worth. That is what I am talking about. That is only $62,500!!

DV
Yes, higher bidder will pay retail tops. What is a Completed Kirkham (NOT a roller, but a COMPLETED Kirkham] worth? It still leaves all the OTHER prizes in tact. If the raffle does not produce revenue equal or exceeding that amount, then what?

Not my deal, I am just being difficult I suppose floating some unpopular idea to those who want the chance to win a nice car for the price of a raffle ticket. That is nice, but I doubt it that is what other raffles for other charities set as a goal. I would have bet, it is "How can we make the most out of a generous donation".

Let's ask Kirkhams, would they be happier if their car was given to some lucky ticket holder who may or may not be in the Cobra community, who may may not want a Cobra, but turns around and sells it for $100,000 while the raffle itself only brings in $60,000 or if they knew that their donation had a bigger impact on the cause.

Hell, everyone in here disagrees with me, why should they be any different. Seriously folks, all I am doing is suggesting other options before it is too late. Once the decision is made we will have to live with it. I have no agenda of my own. Glad to help, or create commotion to get others to think,act, help whatever...

TURK

Turk · #23 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 01:28 PM

$250,000?

Then I have no objections... All is well.
Not at $25.00 each.

An informal pole should humble most of us, If we were to ask how many in here would buy a ticket, we may NOT like the results. Who wants to buy 10 tickets at $100.00 to get the ball rolling?
We may have 5000 plus members, but any given time there are maybe 200-300 members who are active. Others have a life besides this, unlike a few of us!!

Take a look at Jamo's post for donations for this car on another thread. It went days without a single response. As of today I am not sure it is getting as much attention as this discussion in here. This doesn't cost anything. It is free.

I know the work we had to go through to raise some funds for this forum last year. Out of 5000 members, only a hundred or so voted with their pocket books.

Talk is cheap. When it comes to actually writing a check for the raffle tickets, one need to go no further than the repeated pleas from the organizers for Last year's raffle.

TURK

xlr8or · #24 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 01:28 PM

Turk your point is taken but what I was getting at is that with the popularity of Hot Rodding and such these days I wouldn't think there would that much of a problem selling a couple thousand tickets if we show up where the motorheads are hanging out.
With all the shows that groups like "The Good Guys" , "Over the Hill Gang" etc. put on it doesn't seem like that big of a reach to sell 2000 tickets at $50.

How many actual bidders were there on the 911 car?? I just don't think the tax deduction is the prime motivator there. Maybe second or third but I think the interest lies in getting one of the finest Cobras available with a special history attached.

A lot of people will buy a raffle ticket for a new beemer since they can hop in and go anywhere just like the car they already have. For people to buy these raffle tickets they are going to have to be car people so we will need to focus on where those people go like the big shows and local cruises.

As many people that show up at Knott's and Carlisle alone I would think we could sell several hundred tickets at $50.

Maybe I'm just overly optomistic but with such a worthy prize I don't see why not. Does it not seem feasable to sell 50 tickets in 50 different cities at $50 with all the car clubs and shows? Heck thats $125,000

I just think to sell the tickets outside the Cobra community you need to keep the price down to $50 or less.

Again just my .02

Scott

Ron61 · #25 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 01:33 PM

Turk,

You have a bunch of very valid points and for the most part I think they are better than most of what I have read. I think the Kirkham's should have some say in how the car is sold or given away too. The E-Bay with a reserve is a good idea I think and also go ahead with a raffle and just make it known that whichever raises the most money the car goes there. I can't begin to afford a car like that but I would buy a ticket at $100 dollars and if the car sold on E-Bay I wouldn't want the money back. It is for charity and the car as much as I would love to have one is secondary to me. Just my thoughts as I don't have a lot of experience at handling something like this. We do have the big KAN car show coming up here and several people could put out flyers to help in the advertising if that would help.

Ron

mrmustang · #26 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 01:46 PM

Turk,

Who is to say we cannot sell an unlimited amount of tickets for the car. I used the 2,500 mark as just an example. With or without the completed car, I am almost 100% sure that we could make good money for the beneficiary on record. With the amount of Club Cobra members who are known in their own respective communities, clubs, forums, etc., do you not think that we could sell far more than 2,500 tickets. What about the larger shows and cruises we all participate in before the DVSF III, do you not think that this is a strong venue for selling the tickets. Don't you think that there are enough people out there who dream of owning a Cobra (ANY COBRA) that they would not take the chance and invest $25-$50 (or more in some cases) on that dream. Why waste the possibility of heavier promotion (Radio/TV/Internet) for a good cause. The local TV/Radio stations from last years DVSF II event could be let in on the whole idea, perhaps a TV exec would take notice and run with the idea on a national level......We'll never know unless we give it a shot..........As for your original suggestion of auctioning it off, then you leave the car to a very select few who could easily go out tomorrow and buy a Kirkham, and not even blink.....Why cater to such a limited audience, when the possibilities over the long haul are endless.......My own experience with raffles vs auctions are as stated above (I deal with Make A Wish and The Fight for MS here in NJ)......I've seen auctions get to a certain price, and very rarely ever beyond that (usually 65-75% of the actual value of the item being auctioned off)....However, with raffles, everyone feels that they have the same chances of winning, and you know what, they do...This is what spurs them on to buying tickets again and again, year after year, regardless of what item is being raffled off at that time.............It's not about what we can achieve at this point in time, but what we can achieve in the long run that matters...............Once again, just my own rambling two cents worth on this particular subject.........

Sincerely,

Bill S.

Quote:

Originally posted by Turk

mrmustang
Bill, I have no doubts in our ability to sell 2500 at $25.00 each.
That falls way short of what the car is worth. That is what I am talking about. That is only $62,500!!

TURK [/b]

Turk · #27 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 01:55 PM

Bill,
Even though I seem to be very vocal (opiniated) on this subject I really don't have any say so, and I want everyone to know I don't have a dog in this race.

Road Serpents again will not be donating anything this year. We had a bad year ONCE AGAIN.

I made my points rather vigorously for one reason and one reason only.
Whatever, (whomever) decides will have to be one everyone gets behind, other wise your desires to sell more than 2500 ticket may become too lofty if not for any other reason , certainly for the time constraints.
God knows I have in the past taken on 20-25 raffle tickets for numerous raffles, charities etc. only to end up buying them myself at the last minute either becuase I was too lazy to sell them or didn't have enough friends I could call on who would buy anything from me. I think the latter.

God luck to all whichever way they decide to go.

TURK
I agree Kirkahams should have a say so and DV too. Ours are nothing more than opinions however lengthy.

Double Venom · #28 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 02:10 PM

OK...just updating a little.

It does look like the Kirkham Cobra will be the 289 version! David also stated it is up to us on how we dispose of the car. Totally and 100% up to us. They do not get involved with any type of raffle. He is NOT against the raffle, it's just that they do not do raffles. He and the Kirkham family have simply donated the car to the DVSF. It is up to us to decide how to use it!

He has also promised that he will get the car done as soon as possible! We both agreed that this particular car, for CF should be shown all over the country,ie; Knotts, Carlisle and everywhere in between, and as often as possible!

I know we can build what ever net work it takes to do this!
Another side note, we may in fact have TWO COBRAS to raffle of this year. One will be a "kit" the other of course the KMP Cobra. More on this as I confirm up the situation.

David and Thomas are putting the finishing touches on the "wish list" for all the extra parts needed to complete the car. Wouldn't it be totally awesome to come up with a 289 motors fed by webers! My,my. Anyone have a few parts laying around? If someone has an old 289 without any extra holes in it, I'll build it! You want to help? Then by golly it's time.

Lets do this! I want the total, complete, turnkey KMP FIA to be at Knotts!

DV...now it's time to step up to the plate and get serious. Pass a piece of that KeyLime pie please

PS...now lets get into color choice, stripe color. Naaahh! Aint gonna happen! I took a one man vote, OK, David and I took a two man vote and came out with a unanimous decision. It will be raw, beautifull and straight aluminum!

Jamo · #29 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 02:13 PM

Let's get busy!

mikiec · #30 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 02:39 PM

I just finished reading all the posts on this thread and there are some very interesting comments and concerns.

I am left feeling that it all sounds so so "Big Business".......

I agree that our mission is to raise as much as we can for CF, and so it should be. Personally, I have been busy since I left Ohio last June making more quilts to donate to the DVSF III auction.

It seems to me that although we want to do the best we can, and make the DVSF III donation to CF bigger and better than before.......we should not lose sight of ALL the people that help make it possible. My bet is that the majority of our 'Cobra family' can't afford to buy a Kirkham and only dream of the 'maybe someday' ......

Am I wrong to believe that DVSF is about people and their cars (and dreams) as well as the fund-raising? An auction would shut most of these people out before you even get started, and you have turned that money away.

My math says that a raffle of $50/ticket ....2000 tickets would yield $100,000. Now, maybe you may not sell that many, but there is more than just this raffle producing income. And, I'm sure many would feel as I do, I would gladly double the number of chances I bought last year at a chance to win this prize.

(Question: Wasn't a part of the $150 registration fee that we paid to include a raffle ticket?)

I'm sure whatever decision is made it will be best for all involved, I just hate to think that what started as such a heart-warming 'family' event has gone so 'commercial'......

Just my 2 cents added.

Best wishes to all for the New Year!

Ginny (Mrs.MikieC)

Double Venom · #31 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 02:51 PM

Mike,
You, "we" have to go back to the question: Is the DVSF a fund raising event or is it a Cobra family event? My answer is both!

There are hard feelings on this both ways. For me? It is still a picnic, a family event, an event that our Cobra family can enjoy, relax and let their hair down at. Anything raised for CF was kind of secondary.

The Cobra family has raised the Fling up to new levels every year. I see this as nothing more, nothing less than a whole new level. Of course we may have skipped a few levels this year

But, it is and always will be, "The FLING"!

DV...if you missed Mike and Ginny's quilts last year...shame on ya!

mrmustang · #32 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 03:20 PM

DV,

Working on finding an engine as you read this, will let you know in the next couple of days.....

Bill S.

BT SNAKE · #33 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 06:01 PM

If it's a raffle, I want $300 worth of tickets. Maybe more when I get to the Fling.
Having the car raffled makes more sense to me, especially if it is displayed at several shows before the fling. Besides if you really think that it's all about the total dollar then perhaps you should put all the other donated items on ebay as well.

I to would like to see as much money as possible raised for CF. If you print X amount of tickets then you have the right to print on them that the Cobra will not be raffled off until the last ticket is sold. Honestly I think that it won't be long before they will all be gone.

Hersh

J-MAN · #34 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 06:08 PM

Hey Turk, your right.

I made some inappropriate comments on my original reply to this thread regarding a certain make of cobra. I apologize to you or any other person who read my comments prior to editing them. I agree that the best outcome here is to raise as much money for CF as possible, and that the focus on these threads should be just that. I stand humbly corrected. Thank You.

See Ya

Jeff E.

P.S. I'd like to object to some of the things you said to me, but your right this isn't the thread to do it on.

casaleenie · #35 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 06:28 PM

Mikiec,

Ginny, I think you hit the nail right on the head...
I bought three tickets last year at $50. apiece on a kit. I'm sure to buy more again this year... An admission price is in the offing and that should cover a great many expenses. I'm looking at a $400.00 weekend already and I'm only coming in from Cleveland....Add to that some raffle tickets and I'm about maxed out..
I love you guys but there are limits as to what I can spend. At least let me have a chance to win the Kirkham...
I'm sure I'm gonna hear about this.. so here goes...
my .04 cents worth

DaveSemko · #36 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 08:01 PM

OK how about these twists...

1) An Ebay auction for raffle tickets to win the Kirkham. Start the price at say $25.-- or 50.-- then people can bid to buy the tickets. Imagine what the price of ticket might go to if there is a limited number of tickets that will be sold - especially in the final hours before the drawing.

2) Another option, sell the tickets 'Dutch Auction' to all that bid for the highest bid price (common place on ebay). We can re-list the tickets several times between now and the fling - this will give us advertising on a national level, and direct access to folks that are looking for this particular type of car.

3) How about a 'reverse raffle'. Sell a limited amount of tickets, pull tickets all through the event. When a ticket is pulled, the owner of that ticket is eliminated. The last person standing after all the tickets are pulled wins the car. We could have other prizes (maybe a CSX, SPF, ERA

) at the 100th, 150th 200th ticket pulled.

I'll bet we wouldn't have a problem getting folks to stay around to see who wins :-) If we hold back 10 tickets for sale to the highest bidder (ebay perhaps) I'll be people will spend REAL money to buy another ticket if/when their ticket gets pulled! Heck, the more I think, the more ways I come up with to leverage the reverse raffle into more money than just the initial ticket sales... 50/50's, side-bets on the ticket numbers etc.

Personally, I think we should limit the amount of tickets sold - and let supply and demand drive up the price of some tickets that are held back from public sale. The reason I favor this approach is that it increases the odds of winning for any one ticket, and it allows a controlled environment in advance of the event. We would know exactly how many tickets remain to be sold, how hard to campaign etc. The whole situation is much more predictable.

Whatever the approach, I think it is important to set a reasonable goal, and get organized sooner rather than later...

Dave

PS Do we need the exact car that someone will win at the shows - or perhaps just a representative sample? I'd be willing to help the effort... if I can just get David and Thomas to send over a sample, I'd be willing to drive the heck out of it (for advertising purposes only of course

cobra427mnsi · #37 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 08:12 PM

There is one aspect to the E-Bay option that bothers me a little. If it were auctioned, the person buying it obviously could afford it and also wanted a kirkham. Would this be a lost sale for the KIrkhams? In essense, the Kirkhams would have no income on two cars. The car donated and the lost possible sale. Does this make sense? I don't think I am making my point very clear. But the way I see it, it doesn't seem fair to the Kirkhams to auction the car on E-bay.

Paul

David Kirkham · #38 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 09:14 PM

Fellow Car Nuts:

There is more here than meets the eye. I think we need to look at this as a long term project. What is our object here? To get the most money for CF in June...not necessarly. Let me explain. If we work on building the event so it is bigger each year, then next year we may be able to receive more donations and raise more, and more, and more money and so on as the years go on.

The goal here is not giving the most money to CF in June; the goal is giving money to CF until CF is eradicated. I hope I am saying this right.

Now, how do we do that? Hmmm...

As for the decision on what to do...I am just one vote here on this site. Why am I any more important than Jamo for donating the tires, or John Doe for donating an alternator? We had a good year and are lucky enough to be able to give this year. (Many who were at the NY Auto Show gave far more, proportionally, than we did.) I don't pretend to believe our donation is any more important than anyone else's. I think DV will make the right decision on what to do with the car and we will stand by him-- whatever it is.

As for my opinion on the matter, I think a raffle would probably be the best way to go. (Remember, I only have one vote on this matter and others may disagree). The reason for my thoughts.

Maybe over the years we can make this thing grow and become bigger than it is now. Perhaps we will only be able to raise 50K this year...but what about the seeds which are planted for next year? Maybe in a couple of years we are able to raise 550K because the word gets out and we are able to attract more and more people to help out. I think a rafffle will get more people's attention than an auction.

Nevertheless, I too am concerned about other gifts which are donated to the DVSF. Just because we donated a car, doesn't mean our donation is better than anyone else's...(not to get overly religious, and no offence to our non-chrisitan friends;but, remember the widow's mite?). I certainly do not want to take away from Ginny's quiliting, or anyone else's gifts they want to donate. The one dollar donation is just as valuable to CF as the 100K donation. (The 1 dollar donations will probably come in for eternity...the 100K maybe just once.)

So, how can we look to the future and strive for the real goal? Wouldn't it be nice if our children/grandchildren would some day have to ask us, "What was CF?"

David

Excaliber · #39 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 09:28 PM

David, Your "Long term strategy" seed planting ideas coming from a succesful business man such as yourself carries a lot of weight with me. Gotta be a raffle! I was recently at DV's shop ready to buy some tickets. Guess I'll have to wait on that!

Ernie

Greg R2 · #40 (**permalink**) 12-28-2002, 09:51 PM

David,

Bravo!!!! You are a very wise man.

The Kirkhams donated the car to raise money for CF, they didn't say it had to raise XXXXX dollars. If the car only raised $5000, that's $5000 more than CF had before. If the only purpose of the Fling was to raise as much money as possible, than the best thing to do would to have everyone figure how much it would cost them to go, write a check for that amount, mail it to CF, then all stay home.

I didn't make it to the first two events, but I damn well am going to try to make it to the third. Why? Because of the cars, the events, and the people. The chance to win an awsome car and donating to CF are just a bonus.

Ok, I'm going to go back to my upper-lower-middle class life now and see how much money I can save up for raffle tickets.

Greg