Motor builers...Sugar in tank, what will it do?

[GeorgiaSnake]

Ernie, I've never done that to a good car, however I had a little Chevy Luv pickup that used to suffer from carb icing. Out of frustration and with the hope that it would destroy itself I would on occasion push the clutch in and put the pedal to the metal. That little motor would rev like crazy but wouldn't pop - and I would do this for extended periods.

I often wonder if that little motor is still buzzing around

Randy

[coosawjack]

Back in the 50's and 60's this was a ploy by strikers at our local textile mills!!! They would put sugar in gas tanks of management folks and "scabs"!!!

It will ruin your fuel system and engine if it gets that far. If you ever fooled with a 2-cycle outboard motor that has sat up for several years you get the equivalent of varnish from old gas mixed with oil.....Sugar accomplishes the same thing but much faster!!!

If you suspect sugar in the gas, drain and clean the entire system ASAP and DO NOT RUN THE ENGINE!!

As for solubility of sugar in gas.....It may not be very soluble but it won't take but a few PPM to do the damage. That is to say as little as a teaspoon full will do the job!!!

Good Luck,
Jack

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Klayfish;

You know what I do for a living,insurance damage appraiser (autos). We asked the same question while in at a week long school in the early 90's.... Here's the whole scoop,I was there,saw it and did it,take it for what it's worth.....

The first day of class the instructor put four quart jars on his desk,one with water,one with gas,one with diesel,and the last with engine oil. He then poured them approximately 1/3 full of sugar,put the lid on tight and shook them up real good,put them back on his desk and said for us to keep an eye on them and note what happens,also everytime someone got up and went in or out of the classroom and passed the desk he had to pick up at least one jar and give it a good shake as he passed......

A week later,sugar DOES NOT dissolve in gas,it actually sitcks together and looks like large snow flakes,in your gas tank it will "smother" the filter sock around the pickup tube and your engine will quit running for lack of fuel...

Sugar DOES NOT dissolve in diesel either,it just clumps up bigger than in gas..... Sugar DOES NOT dissolve in oil either,it just turns to some thick looking molasse.....


Klay,when we run into this we pay to have the fuel tank removed and cleaned and the fuel lines flushed just in case,actually very inexpensive.....

Now here comes the best part,some of you guys are going to cuss me and call me a lair,but I don't care,these test were done and I was there and they were done to simulate real world experiences......

The instructor took a 5 pound bag sugar and the whole class went outside to the parking lot.... One of the grounds crew people went and got his personal 1983 Chev. p/u,350 4-v motor... Drove up to where we were,left it idling and the instructor poured half the 5 pound bag of sugar in the gas tank,truck kept running just fine..... One student said what if some sugar did fine a way past the filter or the truck had had the filter removed,teacher said he was waiting for that question as someone from every class will ask it..... Truck owner removes air filter and places it on the ground,instructor than begins to slowly pour 2.5 pounds of sugar down the carb,truck keeps on runnng just fine,even shut it off and poured a little bit down the carb then refired it,no problems,the only thing we found was that the exhaust sure smells a lot sweeter.... Afterwards the instructor told us they had been using that same truck for demonstrations for three years,about once a year they did have to take the gas tank off and flush it out as the sugar smothered the fuel pickup.......

So now you see putting sugar in the gas tank will not harm and engine in anyway shape or form other than stop up the fuel pickup.... Depending on the size of the tank and configuration,it should take at least 3 to 5 pounds of sugar to do that,some tanks a lot more.....

This is one time I truly can say the old saying;;;;;Been there,done that......

David

[klayfish]

Thanks for all of the input. As noted, sugar does not dissolve in gas. This was obvious from our appraiser (unfortunately, the vehicle was much too far away for me to go check it out myself), who said sugar was caked all around the fuel pump, which was inside the tank. Sugar poured out of the tank.

David,
That's very interesting. I believe what you are writing, I wish we had done that in the physical damage training classes I had attended. I wonder if it is a case by case basis, depending on the vehicle and the fuel system. Though I wonder in your case why the sugar didn't leave a residue inside the motor. I wouldn't think sugar would burn as completely as gasoline. I'm wondering if the motor in my claim didn't encounter some kind of vapor lock or other lock up situation. The owner said he heard noises, and the vehicle hesitated, but he thought it was just in need of a tune up, so he kept driving (I know, I know...but that's another issue). Finally it "popped" and that was all she wrote.

There is no doubt this vehicle had sugar in it. There is no doubt that the engine blew up (you should see the hole in the side of the block). The question we are trying to answer is was the sugar put in the tank before the motor blew, or after?

Anybody have a Corvette I can borrow?

Steve

[Ron61]

David,

Thanks for that post. I have wondered for years how that Mopar engine the engine builder showed me that was burned up because of sugar blocking the oil passages could have been caused by sugar in the tank. I did see a lot of gooey mess in the valve covers. Could that have been caused by someone putting the sugar into the oil pan. The builder said that the oil pump was clogged which I still don't really understand unless the sugar was put in where you normally add oil. But the engine was definately seized and a mess. Do you know if this could happen that way ?

Thanks,

Ron

[Excaliber]

Ah HA!!! The game is afoot Watson. You see, the first engine DID develop a miss and the customer kept driving. Ho oh,,,,,,you see Watson, he buried ze throttle after all, trying to clear out ze problem!!

Ah yes Watson, the customer killed the motor, he throttled it, with the gas pedal, laced with deadly sugar! Case closed!



Sherlock

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Klay;

Luckly we do not have many of these cases anymore,although we have had a number of "burnt up" motors that the owners claim are from vandalizm,putting sugar in the tank. We always take a fuel and oil sample and have them analized. We have found many many foriegn chemicals in some engines and have denied the claim based on that.... Not trying to screw anyone out of anything,but when you find all kinds of household cleaning fluids in the fuel and oil,well, you get the drift,and anyway "intentional acts" are an exclusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have had a few cases of sugar with the newer fuel injected autos and we also have them flush and clean out the fuel injectors,just for a safety measure...

Now when you have sand in the oil as I have seen a few times,that's bad news..... You should see the engine block after running 100 miles with what we believed to be about a pound of sand poured into engine from the oil fill on the valve cover.... Not much left to call piston rings and a cylinder walls soo scoured you would not believe it... Chaulk it up to a jealous boyfreind or ex-husband,but sand is bad news....

Ron; Never seen sugar in the oil,but surely would beleive it would "gum up" and very possibly clog the oil pump.... When we mixed sugar and oil at room temp,it got very thick and flowed about like molasses. Untill the engine warms up and thins the oil it could very possibly clog oil passages and the oil pump causes the engine to starve for oil and damaging it in the process....

BTW; John Force ran an additive in his fuel on his funny car for a couple of years when he was sponsored by a candy manufacter,made the exhaust smell just like the candy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Klay;

After rereading your post about the blown motor,I might suggest taking a fuel sample from the fuel line or somewhere very near the engine itself and having it check for sugar...... If no sugar is found there,then it would suggest sugar never entered the motor itself and would not be the cause of the blown motor....If sugar is found,it still does not prove that sugar caused the engine to blow,on the other hand you can not disprove it either....

The only thing you could prove is if sugar entered the motor or stayed in the gas tank.....

At the physical damage school I attend yearly in Mississippi,they have a fully equiped body shop as well as mechanic shop with cut-aways of everything from front rotors to engines to complete cars,very neat.....They also have about 8 damaged cars and trucks of varying degrees and a couple of "hail damage" cars.... I pride myself in being the only one of 32 students to point out one hail damage that was not hail,but rather self inflicted damage by the owner..... After discussing it with the instructor,he had ME teach the rest of the class about hail damage and hail fraud damage....BTW; we later found out the guy put a ball-bearing in a shamy and swung it overhand and beat his car to death..... He also pled guilty at his fraud trial....

David

[FIA#9]

Years ago I bought a 1970 Lotus Europa that someone had put sugar in the tank on the prior owner and it made it's way into the combustion chambers and ruined the engine. Did a complete rebuild, cleaned everything and started fresh including a new aluminum Renault head which had been ruined. That was pre-fuel injection, but for whatever reason it got into the engine enough to make a real mess.

[Bill E]

DAVID you can make alcohol from candy