Randy's Ring and Pinion

rsimoes · #1 (**permalink**) 04-03-2003, 07:22 PM

I just received my senter section for my Ford 9 inch rear from Randy's ring and pinion and the oem used case is rusted in the inside. Is this normal? It was quite expensive for it to look so bad. Also the diff itself looks pretty used. It was supposed to be brand new. Of course I have no experience with this, please help me know if this is bad or normal. . . Thanks!

427 S/O · #2 (**permalink**) 04-04-2003, 12:59 AM

They have a nice web site but that means nothing, I would be concerned the rust will flake off and eat the bearings.
Post some good pictures, we would like to see this!. Seems to me if you ordered
new or rebuilt, it should arrive clean/oiled and ready to install.

southernfriedcj · #3 (**permalink**) 04-04-2003, 04:19 AM

I'd call Randy. The 9" they sent me for my CJ8 was perfect.

rsimoes · #4 (**permalink**) 04-04-2003, 02:07 PM

Here are the pictures. Please let me know what you think. . .

http://www.legendarycobra.com/diff

southernfriedcj · #5 (**permalink**) 04-04-2003, 04:08 PM

That jewel looks unacceptable to me. Have you emailed Randy the pics and followed up with a phone call? The yoke wasn't included in mine either. I believe it's extra $$, and you need to specify which U-joint you'll use.

rsimoes · #6 (**permalink**) 04-04-2003, 04:42 PM

They did say that they paint the inside a rust colored paint. Anyone else buy from Randy's and have a third member looking like this one?

Maybe it's okay, I truly don't know. . . .

http://www.legendarycobra.com/diff

Rick Parker · #7 (**permalink**) 04-05-2003, 07:17 AM

The yellowish tint that is present on the gear is the gear marking compond that is used on the teeth to check the gear mesh pattern, it allows for a visual refrence. It makes things look pretty messy.They may have attempted to wipe it off or clean with solvent prior to shipment and any residue will have left the yellow tint. If there is any "heavy rust" certainly that would be reason for concern. Speaking in general terms most of the vendors sell there "center sections"with used cases (unless new is specifically requested) new bearings, new gears, new or used ring gear carrier (traction lock, or Detroit Locker or open). On the traction lock carrier one area to pay very close attention to is the area under the ring gear bolts that secure the hat section. The machined area near the bolt heads (to the inside) can develop cracks or be machined to thin and it will fail from the internal spring pressure exerted. Several vendors make new 9" castings Curry, Strange, Mark Williams and others. In there worst form the Ford 9" is quite strong, until Strange Co & Mark Miller developed purpose designed & built rear ends, these were the main stay for the fuel dragsters and are still used in all but the most brutal classes. It is used exclusively in the Cup cars.
Rick

Excaliber · #8 (**permalink**) 04-05-2003, 07:52 AM

Used parts in the re-build?
Yeah, doesn't everybody do that? I don't have a problem with that in the slightest myself. If you wanted all brand new EVERYTHING it would cost twice as much.

Like the retainer on the side being a "used part". All it does is retain! It's not like theres any "load" on it, it will perform as good as a new one! And the center section case. Once it's been cleaned and checked out and passes inspection NO WAY thats going to break. But hey, you want a new one? For a LOT more money I'm sure you could have it.

The key parts are: Bearings and bearing races! These HAVE to be new, and I'm sure they are.

Thats surface rust on/in the case, I think, I doubt that's it "paint". A totally clean, bare piece of iron will turn brown and show signs of "rust" within HOURS! ONLY way to stop the natural process is to coat the metal with some kind of oil or paint it (and I don't paint in there myself). Now your going to ship it, handle it, store it or whatever until you INSTALL it and the oil coating acts like a DIRT MAGNET! I'd rather have a little surface rust but KNOW that it was CLEAN myself.

Nicks on the lower edge might cause a leak? Doubt it, but hey, file them down, can't loose doing that. To say they will result in a leak is like a lawyer telling you the WORST CASE scenario because THAT will cover all the bases.

Former Ford trans and REAR end rebuilder working on COMMISION. If it came back, I'D have to "eat it"!

Ernie

427 S/O · #9 (**permalink**) 04-05-2003, 10:02 AM

That little nick is just one of the things that should have been checked before shipping, makes you wonder if they forgot anything else?. I would be very concerned about the rust!, if and when you get ready to install, go to radio shack and buy a few small magnets, epoxy one in the bottom of the case.

Excaliber · #10 (**permalink**) 04-05-2003, 10:49 AM

Curious as to why the "rust" is a concern? It's not like it's going to "flake off" and will be inconsequential once rear end fuid is added and it gets a "coat of oil" on it.

Or, do you think the rust is deeper than just surface discoloration? Which in the picture is all it appears to be to me.

The exterior rust cannot be corrected short of paint and poses absolutly zero problems, now or LONG into the future. Rear ends rust on the outside if their not painted, thats what they do! On many metals (such as rear end housings) they will take on a surface rust and it will act like a coating. It's not like the rust is going to "eat through" the housing or something.

Ernie

tommachine73 · #11 (**permalink**) 04-05-2003, 01:47 PM

I belive that is not rust that you are seeing.I examined your photos and here are my conclusions.In a normal rebuild you would get a new ring gear, pinion gear, bearings including small bearing for pinion shaft,also new bearings for pinion gear crush collar,new posi plates posibly new spider gears if neccessary.The marks you see on the retaining ring is from either a used ring or a incorrect installation tool. The small nicks on the housing can be filed flat and they will be fine.From the looks of the gear pattern the guy got it right.The most important thing is the backlash of the gears too little your rear will burn up too much ,you will hear a clunking noise.By the way I rebuilt my rear about a year ago no problems yet.How do like your A&C ? I built mine about 5 years ago still looks good.

rsimoes · #12 (**permalink**) 04-05-2003, 02:16 PM

I haven't received my A&C yet. I'll go pick it up first week of June. I'm just getting all the parts together now, so the build will go smoothly and hopefully quickly. I got just about everything I'll need for now. . . I'm not building it by myself. I'm working with the builder. The builder has a 12 year old one and has done 17 of them. He does really good work. . . .

rsimoes · #13 (**permalink**) 04-06-2003, 11:53 AM

So what's the overall consensus, good piece or return it?

Excaliber · #14 (**permalink**) 04-06-2003, 12:08 PM

LOL,,,,,,Keep it! 9" Ford is INDESTRUCTIBLE. File the knicks (so you feel better).

Ernie

Bill Kesner · #15 (**permalink**) 04-06-2003, 03:03 PM

Rsimoes........

Your pics remind me of what it looks like if the housing had been put in a hot tank to clean it out. Pics look OK to me! You may want to flush it out with something like Brakeleen...and see if any residue comes off. I doubt any will. Just my $.02

- Bill -

DAVID GAGNARD · #16 (**permalink**) 04-06-2003, 03:27 PM

Rsimoes;

A question for you.... When you ordered your center section,just exactly did you order???? Where you ordering an "all new" third member or a rebuilt unit to your specs or did they rebuild a unit you sent them????? What were you told you would receive????

I can not really tell from the photos,but a lot of rebuilders will paint the inside of the center section with a reddish orange bare metal paint to prevent rust.... Granted they should have sprayed something on the outside to prevent rust.... A local machine shop here uses "Cast Blast" paint and so do I. It is made for bare metal and looks just like bare metal..... I have sprayed freshly tanked blocks and heads to prevent rust till they were assembled... I also bead blasted the inside of my oil pan before building my engine to clean it up and then sprayed it lightly with Cast Blast to prevent rust. 11,000 miles later I had to pull it to change the rear main seal and the paint was still there,so it must be good...

There looks like a number of used parts in your center section and if you ordered a rebuilt unit than that's o-k,however if you ordered or were told you would get an all new unit,than that's different....

David

rsimoes · #17 (**permalink**) 04-06-2003, 04:07 PM

This is what I specified and was told:
OEM Ford case (new or used was not specified)
New Ford OEM Traction Lok
New Ford Ring and Pinion
"Daytona" Pinion Support
New bearings

That's pretty much all we talked about. . .

They did say that they spray the inside with a rust colored paint. But then, why does it come off on a paper towel?

DAVID GAGNARD · #18 (**permalink**) 04-06-2003, 04:20 PM

Rsimoes;

Considering that,than you probably got what you ordered... Certain specific things were not stated,as "all new parts",vs "new ring & pinion and traction lock",nothing said about used "carrier or used small parts". Not your fault or anybody's fault,just the way it is.....

As to the "paint" coming off with a towell,if they painted the inside of the case and it was not clean,but may have had a little oil in it,that will cause the paint to come off and not stick....

MY guess is you got what you ordered and what was promised to you,the quality of work or lack thereof may have not been what you expected.... Granted they could have and should have sprayed the bare metal with something to prevent rust and enhance the looks of their product,but they did not,now you have to do it....

David