Enough Dead Cobra Owners! Enough Wrecked Cars!

[klayfish]

Forgive the rant, but this just pisses me off. Enough already!!

I just can't see where it is necessary for a fellow Cobra owner (and possible forum member) to die and another to crash from a needless, stupid mistake!!!

Most of you recall that DV and I had tried to start a movement to organize a charter Cobra group to help deal with the mounting insurance problems we are having, due to losses such as these.

DV, I hope you don't get pissed at me, and forgive me if you do, but I really want everyones help to try to get this thing moving. I know we will never stop ALL crashes. Some people will street race and make dumb mistakes no matter what happens! Nor is it my intention in ANY WAY to try to cram this stuff down anyones' throat. If you don't want to participate, don't. It is entirely your decision.

But I believe strongly that we can help ourselves. At this point, f$*k the insurance problem. That is just a minor symptom. Human lives are infinitely more important. It is my proposal to organize our group in the following manner, as mentioned before:
1. We should come up with a standard safety checklist to "certify" the cars. NO AIRBAGS, NO ABS, NO GOVERNMENT FORCED REGULATIONS . Just simple, basic things. Similar to the NSRAs safety list. We've discussed this before. All I propose is the list to be comprehensive enough to make sure we are safe driving down the road, and take REASONABLE measures to try to survive if God forbid our car gets wrecked (whether our fault or we get hit by someone else).
2. Everyone who signs up will be a member of the charter group once the inspection is completed. I would hope dues could be minimal to none. But I know little about that.
3. We've got to find a way to encourage members to participate in autox, open track racing, high speed driving schools, braket racing at a sanctioned drag strip, something....these cars are dangerous as has been documented many times (wheelbase, hp, etc...). Why can't we come up with accepted events that would count towards driving skill and experience? This would also give everyone an outlet to whip up on the cars in a safe and controlled environment. I think it would help reduce the street racing and showing off.
4. Members agree to drive with common sense. There are no "rules" here. We can't force anyone to do anything, and nor should we. But just to always keep in mind what you are doing and the potential consequences of your actions on the street.

This is not meant to "control" anyone, be a government-like intrusion into anyones' lives, or anything like that. It is a group formed only by us, run only by us, and only we as an entire group will have a say in what happens.

As I said in another post, call me a safety Nazi, though as a proud member of Club Cranky and an avid autox'er, it should be noted that I LOVE to race my Cobra (I'm even trying to buy a 351W for my car to give me better open track lap times). Call me a kill joy, wet blanket, whatever. I hope people understand what I am saying. It really upsets me when we see a fellow member dead for things like this. And another car wrecked.

I won't sit here and do nothing.

All that said, I hope DV is reading this. Last I had talked with him, he was looking into filing for a charter in the state of Ohio. I'm not sure what the progress with that is, but hopefully he can chime in.

What does everyone else think? Who can help? I don't know how to organize something like this, I just want to try to help this stop. Advise and help needed/wanted

Sorry for the rant, I'll get off the podium now.

Steve

[larryar]

AMEN!!

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Steve,
It's hard to stand by watching fellow cobra enthusists die. All you can do is try to inform them and set an example, they will have to make their own choice. Driving a 'macho' car like the cobra , I see no reason to have to prove anything on the street. I go to the track for some thrills. I get some comments from the 'show' crowd that I have too big a rollbar and it's not 'correct'. It bothered me at first, but now seeing all the real life accidents, I would never give up the full safety cage and headrests that make me feel safer cruisin' the streets with my butt 6" inches off the ground in a fiberglass car. Also, cobra's(any homebuilt/new rod) here in B.C. have to go through a full transport Canada safety inspection before it can be registered. At least you know it has brakes and steering,etc. Not to say some idiot will crash it, but that's the point, it's the driver or other guy that causes accidents.
I've seen enough in my 35 years of driving to know better.
Perry.

[Ron61]

Steve,

I have agreed with you all along and something really needs to be done to drive home the point that a light car and huge horsepower plus no experience is really not impressing many knowledgeable people. I have watched a couple of people that I know do big burn outs at places where they should not be doing that kind of stuff and then had the on-lookers laugh at me because I left in a sane manner. I just tell them my car won't burn the tires and ignore the insults. I am still trying to get a friend to go to the track if our weather ever gets nice and go through the high performance driving school. I told him I would go with him and go through it again too. I like to do that any way so it is no big problem with me going. I am going to do it again even if he won't go. I just hate to read about anyone getting killed or hurt in a Cobra or any other car through some mistake that could have been avoided. On the other hand I have done so many dumb things when I was younger maybe that is why it makes such an impression on me.

Ron

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Steve;

I agree with you on this one.... Just to add something from me that I have found.... When I first built my car, I would not pass up a chance to "stoplight to stoplight" race someone,then some friends talked me into going to a Ford Fun Weekend (drag racing at a NHRA sacntioned strip),I did pretty well for a first time drag racer,made the final four in a field of 60+ cars. After that I began going to the drag strip four or five times a year,now I find myself not even wanting to stoplight race anymore.... The more I go to a sacntioned track the less I want to street race.... Maybe this would work for others....

We used to have an auto cross club around here,but it kinda disbanded a few years ago,lack of places to hold events.... I wish like hell they would start up again cause I would love to try my hand at it.... Do not know if I could do any good,but it looks like a ton of fun and one day I'll find a group doing it and enter....

Just my thoughts.....

David

[Tongue Pirate]

Sounds like a great idea. Make it so!

[TomH]

Agree. It's getting uncomfortably close to the point where when you hear "Stand on it!", someone else throws out a soapbox.

[Dan Semko]

Steve,
Although your intentions may be honorable, the insensitivity to the grieving family by ranting on the forum which they probably monitor, does little to heal the hurt. These are ACCIDENTS and regardless of certifications, inspections and whatever is proposed, accidents will happen. I believe that quality professional training is a great idea but to make it mandatory is similar to making cycle helmets mandatory. It will not change the mindset of those that want to push the envelope. Testosterone frequently over rides logic, it always has, always will.

[TERRY M KRYSTOFIAK]

Could not agree more.Point in case, if you have the new Shelby American check out the article near the very end. Great, great idea, even if only one life is saved.

[Tom T.]

A Cobra won't make your d_ick bigger,
Won't make your hair thicker,
Won't make you a better man,
Will kill you. In a second. If you dare it to.

I remember the rumblings back in the '60s of people getting maimed and killed in Cobras, generally for the same reasons they're getting maimed and killed today. They didn't appreciate the car's limitations, or its brutality. People stopped buying them, not just because of the lethal reputation, but it was definitely a factor. I remember the discussions of awe and amazement when Cobras first came on the scene, and how, in a couple of years, most of my car buddies swore they'd never own one. Too small. Too unstable. Too lethal.

Here we are in the 21st century...we older dudes have to counsel the younger guys (and remind ourselves) of the stakes. Terry K. and his ERA were something special on the track, and Terry's no newcomer to these beasts--yet, he got to the point where he decided he'd be better off letting the car go and getting something else. The guy who bought Terry's car didn't respect it. That article in the Shelby American should be required reading.

TT

[Dan Semko]

Terry,
I missed that. Please run that one by again.

[klayfish]

Dan,
I suppose I should apologize to the family. I kind of thought it went without saying how bad I feel for the families. My "rant" makes it pretty obvious how much it disturbs me. I have the deepest of sympathy for his family.

I agree that both recent crashes were accidents. Neither one of them meant to crash their cars. What is so troublesome is that it didn't need to happen.

I never suggested that anything be mandatory. I agree 100% with what you have said. Some people have a certain mindset, and always will. I respect that, I really do. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it. If we are able to create some kind of a group, nobody has to join. I would only hope that those who do will have the mindset previously discussed.

That is all I suggest. I don't want to see another car wrecked or another grieving family. Accidents will always happen, no doubt about it. But why not try to minimize them if we can?

Steve

[Joe Smith]

Gentlemen, I do not intend to belittle
or make light of these tragic Cobra
street racing accidents. My heart goes
out to the friends and family of the
departed.
However...if we don't get a handle on
these idiots....yes IDIOTS who insist that
the local intersection is just the place to
mash down on a 450 hp car that weighs
2200 pounds, WE WILL NOT HAVE A
HOBBY VERY MUCH LONGER.
Every month another insurer cuts off
Cobra owners at the knees. There are
not many left who will touch us with
the proverbial 10 foot pole!

It's simple. When I used to see a
young couple getting hot n heavy in the
back of a movie theatre, I'd say:
"Hey, how about getting a room."

When you see a rodder, ANY rodder
street racing or simply being a
bone head with his car in public, say
"How about taking it to a track".
If he will listen, explain why. If he
won't listen, he's meat wagon fodder
anyway.

[casaleenie]

Klayfish,

Going to try for an analogy here...

You go to church and the priest gets on the pulpit and pleads for more money to support the church. He says that more people have to dig deeper and contribute. He appeals to everyone to do their part.... When the basket is passed, the people who always gave in the past dig deeper and give more money... The people who didn't give before still don't give...

If you're a safe driver and a horrific accident happens, you tend to be even more careful while driving...
If you're a driver who always take chances you will continue to take chances in spite of warnings...

Something a flight instructor told me the first week of instruction...
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots.... However, there are no old bold pilots...."
John Mckenzie

[Russ Dickey]

Originally posted by Joe Smith


Gentlemen, I do not intend to belittle
or make light of these tragic Cobra
street racing accidents. My heart goes
out to the friends and family of the
departed.
However...if we don't get a handle on
these idiots....yes IDIOTS who insist that
the local intersection is just the place to
mash down on a 450 hp car that weighs
2200 pounds, WE WILL NOT HAVE A
HOBBY VERY MUCH LONGER.
Every month another insurer cuts off
Cobra owners at the knees. There are
not many left who will touch us with
the proverbial 10 foot pole!

It's simple. When I used to see a
young couple getting hot n heavy in the
back of a movie theatre, I'd say:
"Hey, how about getting a room."

When you see a rodder, ANY rodder
street racing or simply being a
bone head with his car in public, say
"How about taking it to a track".
If he will listen, explain why. If he
won't listen, he's meat wagon fodder
anyway.

This from somebody who's personal quote is "Life is Short. Roads are Long. Drive Faster." ???

The facts remain that while tragic, these are ACCIDENTS. According to a recent "Dateline" story that covered "evil street racers", it was reported that "more than 20 people die per year" because of a street race. By way of comparison, more people are killed each year while changing a tire on the side of the road.

[Roscoe]

I may take some heat over this but I took another look at the situation and tried to find some point of comparison. What I'm hearing is that we should all feel sadness over this needless tragic incident; WHICH WE ALL DO! The other side is that we should not look at, talk about or analize what this behavior resulted in and how it affects us personally and the replica industry in general.

I don't think we can look at one without the other and still be honest with ourselves. Now we all have done stupid things in our lifetimes and have not been as unfortunate as this poor fellow. However, after our own stupid moves we, hopefully, have taken some introspective thought as to what we did and how not to repeat it in the future.

So I was reminded of the tragic case of JFK, Jr who took off from a small airport about 2 miles from my home. He was a pilot but not really qualified for instrumentation flying. The weather indicated that it was going to be stormy with a very low ceiling. His intellect probably told him he was beyond his limitations but his ego said "lets just load up the family and I'll fly the plane." Well he flew the plane right into Long Island Sound with the entire family aboard.

Reports of the accident covered the tragedy, the family, etc. But there was also critical analysis of his extremely poor judgement. Check out some of the pilot forums for some lively discussions.

While our hearts go out to the family we cannot overlook the circumstances of what happened. This also applies to the other 'accident' that, fortunately, did not end in a death but very easily could have.

Roscoe

[Mongoose]

Just to set the record straight:

Mark Doherty was anything but your average driver. He raced professionally for several years until finances forced him to drop out. This was NOT a case of a "rookie" with more car than he could handle.

His Cobra had every "safety" device required and then some. It's long story but getting his Cobra street legal in Iowa required jumping through lots of hoops.

If there is a "fault" to be found, it was in making a poor choice of when to mash the peddle. Call it a moment of enthusiasm, call it a moment of fun winning over judgement, or do as we are doing and call it an accident...

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by Mongoose



If there is a "fault" to be found, it was in making a poor choice of when to mash the peddle. Call it a moment of enthusiasm, call it a moment of fun winning over judgement, or do as we are doing and call it an accident... [/b]

My personal definition of an "accident" is an undesired result that is unforseen and unavoidable. This, an illegal drag race down a narrow suburban street, with houses close to the curb on both sides, and two hot rod cars travelling at a high rate of speed after dark, is an utterly predictable outcome. An "homeowner's accident" would have occured if one of those cars had flown through somebodies house and landed on someone in the living room. That would have been totally unforseen and unavoidable by the homeowner. You may see it all as being the same, but I see a huge distinction. For instance, if you drink booze all your life, and then get cirrhosis, that is no accident. If you play recklessly with loaded shotguns and blow your head off, some might see that as an "accident". I don't. I see it as an almost mandatory eventual outcome. All of us with Cobra owners with beer bellies, who don't exercise, have high blood pressure, high cholesterol and borderline diabetes are going to have a heart attack, and raise the medical insurance rates for the rest of the Cobra owners who don't. This is no accident, this is a near medical certainty. No different, really. My opinion.

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by Mongoose


Just to set the record straight:

Mark Doherty was anything but your average driver. He raced professionally for several years until finances forced him to drop out. This was NOT a case of a "rookie" with more car than he could handle.
.

If there is a "fault" to be found, it was in making a poor choice of when to mash the peddle. Call it a moment of enthusiasm, call it a moment of fun winning over judgement, or do as we are doing and call it an accident...

Mongoose,

Brett is ABSOLUTELY correct on this... It was Mark's fault pure and simple... It was mentioned that he was bumped during the race, even if he was it doesn't matter..... Where is the accountability?
It's a shame he's dead... a real shame.... but it was by his own hand... and on top of that he almost killed someone else who trusted him...
It looks like he did no better than your "average driver".

He is responsible for all the decisions made that night....This was anything but an accident. He is being held accountable...
Why is this concept so hard to grasp????

[Russ Dickey]

Brett:
Good point. Maybe a bit harsh, but point taken nonetheless.

My response to that would be: Since I am a 31-year-old non-smoker, non-drinker, who spends an hour or two a day in the gym, that you pending heart-attack guys should let everyone live their life as they wish. You guys go ahead and continue to pound the cheeseburgers and beer, and let others mash the gas when they feel appropriate. Either way, everyone lives life by a different sword.

I wonder how many drivers/passengers/innocents are killed each year when people have a heart-attack behind the wheel...I would bet it's more than the 20 who die due to street racing.