Factory 5 buying SAI

[DanElam]

Originally posted by REAL 1
I wonder if there could be a comparison between the FFR spec racer and an equally preped Shelby spec racer. SB v. SB. BB v. BB.

I would be very interested to see the results. Same independent driver. That should indicate which car is capable of faster lap times.

Ok, this is one I can comment on.

First, I should point out that there are some real differences in the cars: FFR has a frame that is legal for GT-1, while the Shelby's do not. The Shelby cars have an independent rear end which certainly provides some advantages through the corners, but gives up a little on the initial run from the line. The FFR cars can be configured with IRS, but I can only think of maybe one or two that have been done that way. The NASA rules require the FFR cars to use a solid rear end. The Shelby's with IRS would be way more fun in an experienced driver's hands.

The FFR cars are designed to use a little bit better wheel setup, while the Shelby's go for the more historical look (which just looks better).

For an enduro, the Shelby is going to have a real advantage with their optional 42 gallon tank vs. the 22 we put in the FFR cars. In sprint races (or with the stock 20 gallon tank) it wouldn't be much of a difference since neither car would run full fuel.

If you go with the fiberglass, I would have to give the nod to FFR, but I haven't weighed them. Certainly an aluminum Shelby is going to have a lower center of gravity and some other advantages over FFR's fiberglass.

Assuming we have the same SB engine configurations, FFR is probably going to typically win since it is a bit lighter (typically a few hundred pounds). Most significantly, the FFR race car frame (I can't comment on the street car frame) that gives it incredible stiffness.

If you go with *typical* SB configurations, then the FFR cars won't win unless the course is really tight: most FFR Spec Racers have to limit their engine configurations to be NASA-legal while most Shelby cars, naturally, will want the more fun that HP brings.

For SB vs. BB it doesn't really matter: the SB were almost always faster than the BB and that is probably true for most tracks today. The SB just have so much better balance than the BB configurations.

It is sort of a waste of electrons/brain cells, but what would be the differences if the cars both had IRS, the same engines, and the same shock/spring configs? The bottom line: not much. Certainly FFR's spec racer frame gives it some advantages that only a race car can provide, but the only other differences that matter are a few related to some geometry. My understanding is that Shelby has faithfully duplicated a few 'quirks' that would contribute a little more to oversteer, but it isn't a big deal. An average driver (one with some track time) is probably not going to be able to notice much of a difference until they, um, run out of talent.

In reality, most Shelby race cars are high HP, balls-of-fun cars designed for the intermediate driver to get a ****-eating-grin. The FFR cars are designed as full performance race cars that can be maintained on a limited budget. (Our FFR spec racer can be raced for less money than a Spec Miata and maybe than our RX-7 race car.) Both are fun. FFR has been successful with the spec racer because it has a series and is cost effective racing. Guys who looked at the Shelby series (me included) were faced with lots of travel time, limitations on sponsorship (it was really 'new' vintage racing) and no sanctioning body. The cars alone aren't enough to carry a series. FFR was smart to partner with NASA. In particular, FFR was smart to partner with Chris Cobetto when he was trying to build NASA on the east coast at the same time.

Want to compare to originals? Well, an original 427 with a race history goes for around $325K. The aluminum is so thin that you can push your hand in it. Very, very light. They usually run with crap tires, but you can change that. Clearly they can be faster than new cars from either Shelby or FFR, but my guess is that most people won't drive them quite as hard!