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07-08-2003, 04:54 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Texas,
Tx
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 4039 427 FE 1966- SOLD
Posts: 749
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Not Ranked
Aluminum Jaguar, Aluminum Audi
Serious question...
Dear Abby,
If the new Audi A8 is all aluminum frame and body, and the new Jaguar XJ has an all aluminum body (huge by comparison) (that looks perfect, seemless and all), and costs $70k, how come it is so damn hard to hand hammer out an Aluminum Cobra body over bucks, with hundreds of hours of low paid foreign labor?
Not meant to be sarcastic, just curiously wondering why?
signed,
Not a Metalurgist in Texas
__________________
My carbon footprint is bigger than your carbon footprint.
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07-08-2003, 05:10 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: CAV GT40 with 331 KC
Posts: 2,187
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Not Ranked
Answer:
Pressure forming. Quick, accurate , but expensive in low volume.
Pat
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07-08-2003, 06:25 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Whippany, NJ,
Posts: 454
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Not Ranked
I thought the Cobra body did not lend itself to forming in the normal production methods? If pressed it would split. (I can swear David Kirkham mentioned this)
-steve in nj-
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"I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture and, kill them."
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07-08-2003, 06:34 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: penn.,
Posts: 2,556
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Not Ranked
Last AL body on E-bay went for $9K(?) big money for tooling and technology( www.fluidforming.com) for what ? , maybe 50 bodys a year. Fibreglass $2500+ $2500 prep for paint. Rite now fibreglass wins, get AL down to $6K , make 'glass obsolete. |
07-08-2003, 07:09 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,555
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Not Ranked
I say build them in Mexico. How does $4. a day for skilled labor sound? I've got guys that could build them out of wood or masonry. Maybe I need to find a Mexican tin bender. 
Think of the time & $$ that would be saved on shipping(vs. Poland). |
07-08-2003, 07:24 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
I have never understood why Doctors charge so much money to spend a few minutes, (if you are lucky) looking at you only to tell you they don't know what is wrong...and yet, they still get paid for not knowing the answer.
David  |
07-08-2003, 07:49 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Metro Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: 2 dr roadster, V-8, 4 spd.
Posts: 2,780
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Not Ranked
David,
My best was about just over a year ago when I tore up almost every ligament holding my wrist together. Orthopod, 1st guy I was seeing after I made double sure to check out his credentials says "I want you to get a 2nd opinion" I say "Doc, heck no, I've done my homework, I know you are the best in town, I am comfortable with your opinion, I don't need one." Doc replies after studying my charts some more, and says, "It's not for you, I need one!!" I swear it's true. I was proud he 'fessed up as we say down here.
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07-08-2003, 11:00 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,441
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Not Ranked
...as opposed to lawyers who will spend many billable hours telling you what's wrong and how you'll be damn lucky if they can fix it. 
Cracks me up how the other high-end Euro-mfgs are all copying Audi with arruminum bodies and all-wheel drive offerings.
Audi Lover
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Jamo
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07-09-2003, 04:02 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Leicester,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: Crendon, windsor 408 stroker, tremec. Also GSX008
Posts: 1,406
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Not Ranked
The real answer is:
Unit cost on high volume production reduced by masssive investment ($billions?) in production engineering, tooling etc.
Low volume production cannot justify this kind of investment, hence high unit cost.
Anyway - I like the new ally Jag, maybe they could have moved the styling on a bit but have you ridden in one? Wonderful ride. Makes the Audi feel like a go-kart. (sorry Jamo).
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Wilf
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07-09-2003, 05:08 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hopkinton, MA,
Posts: 27
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The new Ford GT has an aluminum body that is formed with a single sided die, then heated to just below aluminum's melting point and forced into the die by high pressure air.
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jack
My Cobra IS real....just not old!
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07-09-2003, 07:54 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Texas,
Tx
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 4039 427 FE 1966- SOLD
Posts: 749
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Not Ranked
__________________
My carbon footprint is bigger than your carbon footprint.
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07-09-2003, 08:20 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle, WA,
Posts: 1,389
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oof!
__________________
Foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of tiny minds
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07-09-2003, 08:43 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: CAV GT40 with 331 KC
Posts: 2,187
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Not Ranked
Jackffr1846-
That is called pressure forming....
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07-09-2003, 09:02 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 15,712
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I understand Jaguar is in pretty deep with the investment to go alloy. It may be years before they "break even". And that assumes they sell enough cars.
Ernie
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07-09-2003, 10:26 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,441
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Not Ranked
No problem Wilf...depends on which Audi you're talking about. If it's the old A8, I would agree. Try the new A8L. Course, Jaguar assumes you Brits actually enjoy driving Fords wrapped in Buick styling. 
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Jamo
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07-09-2003, 11:45 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Carrollton,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: JBL now SOLD
Posts: 1,735
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Not Ranked
Aluminum is cool.....
and i want one!!
BUT, I understand that when Carroll started out with these things, they were all aluminum....and he wanted fiberglass. There was a time when aluminum was OK, but fiberglass (like the Corvettes) was the exotic sought-after material. Anyway, I'll take real metal any day.
Maybe a consortium of Cobra car makers could have a joint venture to drive up enough volume to jusify aluminum production. Wishful thinking I know.
BTW.....anybody know what does Panoz does for their aluminum production?? Their bodies are excellent.
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07-09-2003, 12:57 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Brett,
I don't know how you are contributing to my Dad's 401K???
David  |
07-09-2003, 03:16 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Leicester,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: Crendon, windsor 408 stroker, tremec. Also GSX008
Posts: 1,406
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Not Ranked
Jamo - there is often a considerable difference in spring rates between USA and Euro spec cars. Trouble is, many german manufacturers set their cars up for their nice flat roads, not the bumpy POS tarmac we now have here.
Jaguar usually sets the benchmark here for comfort with a sports bias, especially in small bump response around town.
I find Audis/BMWs much firmer in their ride, and in a luxo-barge like their larger vehicles, my personal opinion (FWIW) is that is plain wrong. A good example is the new BMW 760L - appalling bump absorbtion for such a vehicle.
All down to personal taste I guess.
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Wilf
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07-09-2003, 03:50 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: CAV GT40 with 331 KC
Posts: 2,187
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Not Ranked
The Germans should try to figure out how the French manage to achieve such a great ride combined with excellent handling...
David - Bolte has a Panelcraft replica.....he's just suffering from Kirkham envy.  |
07-09-2003, 03:56 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago, Oscar winner, my kind of town,
Posts: 614
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Not Ranked
I'm just glad Jaguar finally added some needed headroom.
Thank you American Ford for fixing that particular flaw in the British design.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you
So when's the Aluminum Ford Taurus (or near equivalent) due?
(Don't laugh, it's in the works).
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