Tears while ideling? Am I too rich or lean?

[leadfoot]

I have heard that being too lean and too rich causes plenty of smoke that brings tears to your eyes? Can both extremes cause this?

[Woodz428]

I've never encountered the teary eyes from too lean, I guess it's possible (it usually smells different to me), but rich will definetly bring tears to your eyes and a stench to your clothes.

[vettestr]

YES,
Run your toy VERY lean and even a big boy will cry when he sees the cost to rebuild or replace pistons. To rich will just foul plugs and black smoke from unburned gas. Blue smoke is oil and white is anti freeze. There is always shades of or blends and different opinions but thats the basics

[Excaliber]

I lean toward rich as being the eye burning culprit.

Ernie

[gsharapa]

Rich is it!!!!!!!

[wizard]

Here's something interesting. What it means, I don't know.

When I brought my WC home it too would make your eyes burn. 460 with Edelbrock 750cfm. I worked on it off and on and have gotten it much better by leaning it up some. Edlebrock was involved and got some good advice from them. Here's where it gets interesting. A good friend who tunes engines by ear helped me in retuning the ignition. He advanced the timing until detonation and back off. Then he shut off the motor and then a restart. If the timing is too far advanced it will difficult to start. For these several minutes until he got the timing where it needed to be, we had those god awful eye burning fumes again.

For whatever that's worth.

[SCOBRAC]

Timing is a compromise. Tuning you carb is too. How do you dial in an advance curve by ear? You may want to bring in someone with x ray vision to see where the mechanical advance is at 1200, 1800, 2200, and 2800 rpm.

[Ron61]

If you are running way to rich the your exhaust pipes should show black and possibly a little wet at idle. I have actually been able to feel a mist comeout of mine when I had it to rich once by just holding my hand close to an exhaust pipe exit while it was at idle. And the pipes were black as night back then. Now a nice gray.

Ron

[Tinker51]

This is interesting, I had always been told that too lean was the culprit for tears. My car does not cause them but it is set a tad rich because I have black sooted pipes. I agree that way too lean will cost you big bucks in valve and piston damage in the long run. I'll bet Mr. Fixit knows the answer.

[wizard]

Note to SCOBRA.

I agree with you in principle but since I have a MSD ignition, getting the timing correct is questionable without one of their timing lights. At any rate, he was able to get a much better throttle reponse and a performance increase. Now take my timing light and record where I'm at and I can get back to where I started any time I want. Now back track the timing curve, (Tach reads fine.) deduct it from whereever the light said you started and you can verify your curve. Having said all that, the proof is in the perrformance, whichever way you go. Ultimately, though, was my point about the "tear" problem as it related to timing. I would love to know more about the whyfore's.

PS - Why the sarcasm???

[aumoore]

If you do not have a good multispark ignition you can reduce the burning eyes at idle by adding one. I added a Digital Hyfire to my Unilight ignition and it really cleaned up the idle. Ther is still a slight smell but the burning eyes is all but gone.

Also I advise the ignition box with the rev limiter as I had a stuck throttle and the rev limither saved the motor.

[Ron61]

Tinker51,

If your car is just a tad rich just take it out and blow it out and that will clear your black sooty pipes. If I let mine idle for a very long period of time they start to get black also. A quick blast down the freeway at around 70 and going up through the gears clears all of that out.

Ron

[trularin]

Can you get access to an airfuel meter?

They can tell you what your ratio is.

Just a thought.

[vettestr]

Tuning is an art that is a hard taught lesson. ( !) If done without gas anylizer equip and engine loading then (2) by someone with a well rounded BLACK MAGIC approach or (3) an onboard computer. Anything less is a hit and miss deal.
(1) A dyno can load engine and monitor bandwidth to suggest departure from ideal settings.
(2) An old guy with a tuned ear and lots of experience can get you there after making changes and making a run then clicking engine off to read different loading stages. Then read the plugs for each load type where engine was ( clicked off) so not contiminated by other conditions. Here is the LOST ART or black magic.
(3) Use new electronics and multiple sensors to read those conditions (maybe making real time corrections) also called aftermarket or stock fuel injection or ONBOARD COMPUTER.
An aftermarket 02 anylizer about 80 bucks can read exhaust gas ( 1 bank only because of where installed ) but leaves many other variables not identified, just the end result. A bad plug will throw off reading as a rich mixture, cold exhaust gas from improper 02 sensor location will show as lean mixture also and improper timing or even the portion of the cam range not in powerband will be shown as rich.
Take it to local OLD GUY capable of old way results or take it to DYNO WAY to map entire loading range and suggest changes or throw parts at it until you run out of money you are willing to spend. I'll bet the dyno is the cheapest direct path with the best results for your specific car and driving conditions at those atmospheric conditions. OR install fuel injection with all the sensors to keep it within the designed BOX. Even then outside problems cab sneak up on you with any choice. I do have a high respect for the OLD GUYS and the best of them are now using electronics to fast forward or prove them right!