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How To Tell A 351 Cleveland
I have a neighbor that has a 1967 RV he wants to get rid of. It has what looks to be a 351 Cleveland but I dont claim to be SBF expert. what #s do I look for and where do I look to find out if I should pull the motor? The van has 36,000 origional miles so It may be worth my time. The engine would probably just need a reseal. It looks to be in very good cond.but has been parked for quite some time. Oh it also has a 2 barrel carb. and the automatic transmission looks brand new too!
thanks Gary:MECOOL: |
Gary,
I believe that the Cleveland was only manufactured from 1970-1973. I don't have my reference material in front of me so I may be wrong. I'm guessing that what your friend has is a 400M truck motor, which comes from the Cleveland line. If nobody else helps out with the location of the numbers, I'll look it up tomorrow for you. Cheers Jim |
CLEVELAND????
Thank you Sir. I dont want to waste my time pulling it out, so I appreciate it!
Gary |
An easy way to tell a Cleveland from a Windsor is the fuel pump. a Clevelands fuel pump bolts are vertical, while a Windsors are horizontal. Also the number of valve cover bolts are different between the two.
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I have a cleveland sitting on a stand in my garage
email me if you want some pics :cool: oops, I'll email you :) |
Thermostat housing. The thermostat goes into the front of the intake on the windsor. Cleveland goes down into the block in FRONT of the intake.
Ron ps, exhaust manifold bolts go straight across on windsor. Clevelands are angled. |
In 1967 it won't be a cleveland or a windsor. I haven't found a beginning production date on the modifieds though. If they made the modified at that time, it could be one of those. Otherwise, I'm guessing an FE 352-360 maybe?
Randy |
Randy,
Windsor engines started life in 1962 and covered 221, 255, 260, 289, 302/5.0. - Jim - |
Howdy Dude,
Clevelands were built from '70 to '74. 351w started production in '69. The 400 didnt start untill 71 or 72, and the 351m wasnt untill like '73 or so. If the RV has the original motor it would have to be sb (like a 289 or 302- first year of 302 was '67, but not many made until 68) or a FE. The 429/ 460 werent built until '68. |
Sorry, I was talking about 351W, the only one to carry the "W" in it's designation. It also has different overall dimensions from the rest of the windsor family. I am very aware that the 260-289-302 are all windsor family engines. I guess I just made the assumption that everyone would know I was talking about the 351 as I didn't think an RV would have come with a 289 or smaller in 1967.
Don't worry though, for everything I do know, there are a thousand things that I probably need corrected on. Thanks, Randy Added - Stengun says the 302 was first made in 1967. THAT I didn't know! |
Yep... the first year was the spring of '67. The engine could be anything. I've seen 240 6's in old F450 flatbed trucks..talk about no power!! Unless u have a 2 speed rear end.
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For the era, I don't think they used the smallblocks in an RV (I know they didn't in trucks) and think it is most likely FE (most likely a 352, 360's are a 70's engine, although it could be the HD 361 which can be determined by exhaust manifolds.They also had forged steel cranks,HD's,not the regular FE's). By the way the 302's first year was '68, all 289's until then.
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Debunking the C
As a 351C owner and enthusiest there are a number of accurate ways to ID the motor. Previously mentioned and correct would be the thermostat housing. There is a cast iron block extension, the stat housing bolts down on top of it. There is no aluminum front cover like on the W motors. Another easy way to tell is look at the valve covers, Cleveland valve covers loook unique and have different bolt pattern and I think more of them then a W. Next in the corner of the cover rail there will either be a 2 or a 4 cast in indicating the type of head. With the valve covers off the obvious sign is the canted valves which cannot be mistaken. Also this will eliminate the FE's since the manifold forms part of the rail. If the canted valves throw you check the timing cover again, if it has a regular aluminum cover then you have a 385 (429/460). I concur with earlier post. If this RV has the original motor it is most likely an FE. Ford made RV chassis though I don't know when they started. My guess is 360 or 390 with a C6. BTW Clevelands are great motors that have been besmerched by bad press over the years mostly from Chevy oriented ragazines. Most of the rumors are not true.
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Oh yea, 360's were in trucks clear back in 68. My grandpa's truck had one. It was original.
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I find heads one of the best ways to ID them. The Windsor has heads that are cut off on the corner so the exhaust comes straight out the sides. The Cleveland has a bigger square head and the exhaust ports go down and out. The FE's are a smallish head with the intake going out into them about 1/4 of the head. There are also very good tell tales like the aluminium tag under the coil bracket or on a front cover that will tell the story. If you could get a picture, more numbers or more detail there is plenty of expertise to verify it here at CC.
Cheers Nick |
CLEVELAND????
Thanks guys, You have been extremely instrumentaL in identifying this motor. By the information you have supplied me it looks to be a Windsor. Ill pass....
Thanks Gary |
http://www.fordcobraengines.com/351clev2.jpg
As far as I know the 351c is the only ones with these kind of valve covers |
http://home.comcast.net/~jelerath/mu...ne/engine.html
Good site, make sure you read the notes. |
A 351 Windsor has 6 bolts on each valve cover, the 351 Cleveland has 8 bolts on each valve cover.
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I'll throw another unusual wrinkle in for the heck of it.
On some rare occasions both 427's and 428's made their way into RV's. The 427 was also done as a marine engine (reverse rotation) so that old FE in the worn out looking flat bottom ski boat could be a 427. They also showed up in cabin cruisers. I guess if it were me, I'd give that old engine a good looking over before giving up. Others are right. It is most likely an FE. Never mind bolt patterns, an FE is a heck of a lot bigger than a 302/289 Of the FE's, a 360 or 390 is most likely in '67. The 361 was used in heavy trucks, (two ton and above) not pickups and RV's. Get a little greasy and look it over. Al |
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