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07-20-2003, 11:50 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: ALBUQUERQUE,
NM
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast Cobra weber fuel injected 557 C.I.. 800H.P 760LBS. TQ. Magnum T56
Posts: 330
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Not Ranked
How To Tell A 351 Cleveland
I have a neighbor that has a 1967 RV he wants to get rid of. It has what looks to be a 351 Cleveland but I dont claim to be SBF expert. what #s do I look for and where do I look to find out if I should pull the motor? The van has 36,000 origional miles so It may be worth my time. The engine would probably just need a reseal. It looks to be in very good cond.but has been parked for quite some time. Oh it also has a 2 barrel carb. and the automatic transmission looks brand new too!
thanks Gary 
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WHEN YOU HAVE MORE HORSEPOWER THAN YOU NEED ITS STILL NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!!
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07-20-2003, 12:27 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Raleigh NC USA,
Posts: 273
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Not Ranked
Gary,
I believe that the Cleveland was only manufactured from 1970-1973. I don't have my reference material in front of me so I may be wrong. I'm guessing that what your friend has is a 400M truck motor, which comes from the Cleveland line.
If nobody else helps out with the location of the numbers, I'll look it up tomorrow for you.
Cheers
Jim
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07-20-2003, 12:47 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: ALBUQUERQUE,
NM
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast Cobra weber fuel injected 557 C.I.. 800H.P 760LBS. TQ. Magnum T56
Posts: 330
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Not Ranked
CLEVELAND????
Thank you Sir. I dont want to waste my time pulling it out, so I appreciate it!
Gary
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WHEN YOU HAVE MORE HORSEPOWER THAN YOU NEED ITS STILL NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!!
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07-20-2003, 02:37 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Iowa,
Posts: 34
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An easy way to tell a Cleveland from a Windsor is the fuel pump. a Clevelands fuel pump bolts are vertical, while a Windsors are horizontal. Also the number of valve cover bolts are different between the two.
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Second place is first loser!
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07-20-2003, 03:31 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 1999
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 314
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I have a cleveland sitting on a stand in my garage
email me if you want some pics
oops, I'll email you 
Last edited by Neal Jackson; 07-20-2003 at 03:37 PM..
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07-20-2003, 05:00 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Monett,
MO
Cobra Make, Engine: 2 Seat Roadster-by B&B, 460+ w/auto.
Posts: 437
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Not Ranked
Thermostat housing. The thermostat goes into the front of the intake on the windsor. Cleveland goes down into the block in FRONT of the intake.
Ron
ps, exhaust manifold bolts go straight across on windsor. Clevelands are angled.
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Ron
Nonconformist. Can't handle a real job.
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07-20-2003, 05:15 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lenexa,
KS
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 47
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In 1967 it won't be a cleveland or a windsor. I haven't found a beginning production date on the modifieds though. If they made the modified at that time, it could be one of those. Otherwise, I'm guessing an FE 352-360 maybe?
Randy
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07-20-2003, 06:11 PM
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Shade Tree Mechanic
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: La Plata,
MD
Cobra Make, Engine: - Unique - 302 - 4 spd. -
Posts: 680
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Not Ranked
Randy,
Windsor engines started life in 1962 and covered 221, 255, 260, 289, 302/5.0.
- Jim -
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- Jim Harding -
- Capital Area Cobra Club -
- Just another day in Cobra Paradise -
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07-20-2003, 06:40 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bugtussell,
AR
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR 4859GT Spyder GT 414W EFI
Posts: 257
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Howdy Dude,
Clevelands were built from '70 to '74. 351w started production in '69. The 400 didnt start untill 71 or 72, and the 351m wasnt untill like '73 or so. If the RV has the original motor it would have to be sb (like a 289 or 302- first year of 302 was '67, but not many made until 68) or a FE. The 429/ 460 werent built until '68.
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07-20-2003, 06:42 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lenexa,
KS
Cobra Make, Engine:
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Sorry, I was talking about 351W, the only one to carry the "W" in it's designation. It also has different overall dimensions from the rest of the windsor family. I am very aware that the 260-289-302 are all windsor family engines. I guess I just made the assumption that everyone would know I was talking about the 351 as I didn't think an RV would have come with a 289 or smaller in 1967.
Don't worry though, for everything I do know, there are a thousand things that I probably need corrected on.
Thanks, Randy
Added - Stengun says the 302 was first made in 1967. THAT I didn't know!
Last edited by jayhawk261; 07-20-2003 at 06:44 PM..
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07-20-2003, 07:26 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bugtussell,
AR
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR 4859GT Spyder GT 414W EFI
Posts: 257
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Yep... the first year was the spring of '67. The engine could be anything. I've seen 240 6's in old F450 flatbed trucks..talk about no power!! Unless u have a 2 speed rear end.
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"A veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The 'United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'" (Author unknown)
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07-20-2003, 09:20 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Freedomia,,
Il
Cobra Make, Engine: Coupe,Blue w/white stripes SB; Roadster, Blue w/white stripes BB w/2-4s; SPF installer/Hot Rod-Custom Car builder
Posts: 1,376
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Not Ranked
For the era, I don't think they used the smallblocks in an RV (I know they didn't in trucks) and think it is most likely FE (most likely a 352, 360's are a 70's engine, although it could be the HD 361 which can be determined by exhaust manifolds.They also had forged steel cranks,HD's,not the regular FE's). By the way the 302's first year was '68, all 289's until then.
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WDZ
Last edited by Woodz428; 07-20-2003 at 09:26 PM..
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07-20-2003, 09:33 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 10
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Debunking the C
As a 351C owner and enthusiest there are a number of accurate ways to ID the motor. Previously mentioned and correct would be the thermostat housing. There is a cast iron block extension, the stat housing bolts down on top of it. There is no aluminum front cover like on the W motors. Another easy way to tell is look at the valve covers, Cleveland valve covers loook unique and have different bolt pattern and I think more of them then a W. Next in the corner of the cover rail there will either be a 2 or a 4 cast in indicating the type of head. With the valve covers off the obvious sign is the canted valves which cannot be mistaken. Also this will eliminate the FE's since the manifold forms part of the rail. If the canted valves throw you check the timing cover again, if it has a regular aluminum cover then you have a 385 (429/460). I concur with earlier post. If this RV has the original motor it is most likely an FE. Ford made RV chassis though I don't know when they started. My guess is 360 or 390 with a C6. BTW Clevelands are great motors that have been besmerched by bad press over the years mostly from Chevy oriented ragazines. Most of the rumors are not true.
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07-20-2003, 09:34 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 10
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Oh yea, 360's were in trucks clear back in 68. My grandpa's truck had one. It was original.
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07-21-2003, 06:29 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Holderness, NH, US of A,
NH
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 4772 old iron FE
Posts: 5,499
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I find heads one of the best ways to ID them. The Windsor has heads that are cut off on the corner so the exhaust comes straight out the sides. The Cleveland has a bigger square head and the exhaust ports go down and out. The FE's are a smallish head with the intake going out into them about 1/4 of the head. There are also very good tell tales like the aluminium tag under the coil bracket or on a front cover that will tell the story. If you could get a picture, more numbers or more detail there is plenty of expertise to verify it here at CC.
Cheers Nick
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07-21-2003, 06:42 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: ALBUQUERQUE,
NM
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast Cobra weber fuel injected 557 C.I.. 800H.P 760LBS. TQ. Magnum T56
Posts: 330
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Not Ranked
CLEVELAND????
Thanks guys, You have been extremely instrumentaL in identifying this motor. By the information you have supplied me it looks to be a Windsor. Ill pass....
Thanks Gary
__________________
WHEN YOU HAVE MORE HORSEPOWER THAN YOU NEED ITS STILL NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!!
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07-21-2003, 04:55 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Stoneville,NC,
NC
Cobra Make, Engine: Factory 5 mk4 445 FE
Posts: 1,623
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As far as I know the 351c is the only ones with these kind of valve covers |
07-21-2003, 05:08 PM
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CC Member
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Posts: 10
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07-22-2003, 02:09 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: MIDWEST,
Posts: 750
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A 351 Windsor has 6 bolts on each valve cover, the 351 Cleveland has 8 bolts on each valve cover.
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07-22-2003, 05:25 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Portland, OR area,
OR
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary CCX33868 Sold. Just "playin' the boards now."
Posts: 634
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I'll throw another unusual wrinkle in for the heck of it.
On some rare occasions both 427's and 428's made their way into RV's. The 427 was also done as a marine engine (reverse rotation) so that old FE in the worn out looking flat bottom ski boat could be a 427. They also showed up in cabin cruisers.
I guess if it were me, I'd give that old engine a good looking over before giving up.
Others are right. It is most likely an FE. Never mind bolt patterns, an FE is a heck of a lot bigger than a 302/289
Of the FE's, a 360 or 390 is most likely in '67. The 361 was used in heavy trucks, (two ton and above) not pickups and RV's.
Get a little greasy and look it over.
Al
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And too much is just enough."
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Last edited by A Snake; 07-22-2003 at 05:27 PM..
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