Epoxy paint or snap together tiles for the garage??

[stush]

For those of you w/ racedeck, what happens with fluid, waters, oils that spill or leak onto the tiles? Does it run down inbetween the joints and therefore you have to lift the section of tiles to do a good clean up?

Stu

[RaceDeck]

Just stumbled on this post......

Anyone with questions on our product line "RaceDeck" can all us directly at the corporate offices in Salt Lake City Utah - were we manufacture all of our productline. 800-457-0174..We are more than happy to answer any of your specific questions and/or needs and get you a information package out the same day

RaceDeck has been specifically designed for the Garage Enviroment and easy for the average homeowner to install correctly in the garage.

Speed Safely!

[Robert Evans]

If I may also join the topic again....
Being the RaceDeck dealer in So. Calif., we have not only been selling hundreds of thousands of sq. ft. of RaceDeck flooring, but we have also installed tens of thousands of sq. ft. for customers. We finally disolved the installation portion of the business because the tiles are so easy to install, and most customers end up installing it themselves.

As far as fluids getting underneath:
I owned and operated a floor coating/covering business for many years, so here is a little explanation about why most epoxy coatings fail...
Moisture is the biggest enemy of epoxy coatings, whether from above the surface or below it. Hydrostatic moisture vapor comes up from below the concrete foundation and must escape, and when it cannot breath, it pushes the coating off the floor. When coatings become worn, damaged and aged, openings and penetrations into the coating occur and moisture can penetrate underneath the surface and cause a delamination of the coating. Think of the epoxy surface after a year or two having "rock chips" in it much like the front of your car. Even cracks or control joints can be a point of moisture entry. As small as they may be, they do allow moisture under it, especially if someone likes to wash down their garage with a hose to clean it. (We would void a customers warranty if they hosed down the epoxy floor frequently with water.)

So, why is RaceDeck designed to allow moisture underneath it? Although the joints are very tight, it can allow some liquids to get underneath if the spill is large enough, but unlike epoxy floors which may fail and delaminate when liquids get into penetrations, RaceDeck has channels and an air-gap underneath it which allows those liquids to evaporate. Remember, this is a free-floating floor that does not use adhesives. RaceDeck was specifically designed as a cure to the short-comings of epoxy coatings....it is easy to install, it cannot fail due to moisture, and it can be put over virtually any solid surface without any floor prep other than sweeping.

Before I started reselling RaceDeck in So. Calif., I re-built my own car on top of a floor in my garage on jack-stands over a period of a year. I had to drain every fluid from the car, so I spilled alot of coolant, and oil. Once the car was finished, I removed the floor to see how much liquid had gotten underneath it, and what little was left was cleaned up with 2 paper towels.

One other word about floor prep for coatings:
Many products advise you to use muratic acid as a means of floor cleaning and etching. This should be a red-flag to anyone wanting to put down any type of coating because it creates a very high PH balance in the concrete, and unless the person is very diligent about neutralizing that PH balance, the coating will not adhere. Pressure washing is NOT a means of neutralizing or preparing a floor. If you can imagine that one gallon of muratic acid is used to treat for a neutral PH condition in a 30,000 gallon swimming pool, just imagine what 2 or 3 gallons of acid will do to 400 sq. ft. of concrete!!! Shot blasting or diamond grinding are the preferred methods of floor prep, and they are also quite expensive to do.

Also beware of products that state that their epoxy products can be thinned or cleaned up with water. When was the last time that your water-based house paint withstood solvents or brake fluids? Only solvent based epoxy products will withstand harsh chemicals....almost as well as RaceDeck can!

As it has been mentioned by other here, you will always get what you pay for in the long run. You can for for it once, or you can pay for it twice....and the second time is always more expensive.

Although we are the RaceDeck dealer for So. Calif., I would advise anyone interested in more information and a free DVD to contact RaceDeck directly at 800-457-0174, and they can direct you to a dealer in your area.

[Bill Wells]

nicely done mr evans.

thanks for the thorough explanation of different coverings and reasons some fail. good info for me to share with friends who have had self applied paint/epoxy failure and wondered why. bill.

[RaceDeck]

Great explaination Bob!..... if anyone knows all of the pros and cons of various floorings, it is Bob.....

He has years of hands on experience!

[Don]

The pictures of the NASCAR and other professional racing/restoration garages appear to all have some type of Epoxy floor system.

Does anyine know what products are used? View the pictures on :

http://www.precisionepoxy.com/

[conway]

I guess it is obvious , the 24 team uses products from Dupont Performance Coatings. I think they blasted the floor first before application.

Conway

[RaceDeck]

The Nascar teams pretty much use anything they get at no cost! "SPONSORSHIP"
The Kelly Racing Team (IRL) uses RaceDeck - We supplied the floor to them - Scott Sharp and Al Unser Jr..

Also, these teams have millions in their budget for shops and support equipment...

[Robert Evans]

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned here before:
Not all epoxy floors are the same. We have discussed basic water-based and solvent-based epoxy floors in this thread, but those are generally NOT the type of floors that are installed in most heavy-duty shops, such as the Nascar shops mentioned earlier. A typical epoxy "coating" floor that is usually rolled on is nothing more than multiple layers of a liquid material of some sort. The most durable form of epoxy floor is not a "coating", BUT an epoxy/aggregate or slurry-filled floor. The epoxy that is used in these types of floors are nothing more than a "binder" for the part of the floor that makes it durable, which is the ceramic sand or silca filler. When a ceramic or silica slurry filler is used in conjuntion with a 100% solids epoxy, it becomes very dense, and very impact resistent. Without the filler, it is nothing more than a low-duty coating. These types of floors are usually 3/8" to 3/4" thick, and are troweled onto the floor, not rolled.

Here's an example of how a filler works in another type of product:
Concrete is primarily composed of three components...Sand, Rock, and cement powder. The cement is nothing more than a "binder" to bond the sand and aggregate together. Without the sand and aggregate, cement by itself is not very durable and will not absorb impacts or heavy weight loads. Try calling your local concrete batch plant next time you are pouring concrete and them that you want to delete the sand and rock from the mix, and they will tell you to go fly a kite. Cement is just a portion of the complete concrete mix, and cannot be used alone.

Although epoxy does have some durable characteristics, it is much like the cement in concrete and must have a binder added to it to be strong. With this binder added to epoxy, it is also much less suseptable to moisture, and generally when it is damaged, it is not a complete break through of the covering into the substrate because of the thickness. The impact and durability factors of an aggregate filled epoxy system are 10 times that of a simple solvent-based epoxy coating system. This is why Health departments in Calif. only authorize aggregate filled epoxy floor systems in the kitchen areas of restaurants, but do NOT approve simple epoxy floor "coatings".

Almost all new concrete floors that are intended to have a floor covering placed over the top of them (whether it is epoxy, carpet, wood, etc.) also have a vapor barrier such as thick plastic sheeting placed under the concrete slab prior to pouring concrete. When a new house foundation is being poured, this vapor barrier is installed prior to concrete placement, but contractors generally DO NOT place this sheeting under garage foundations. That is why you will find moisture escaping in the garage and not in the house. If you have found moisture escaping in the house and the contractor did not place a vapor barrier, you have a good lawsuit on your hands!

Oh,... and the average cost of an aggregate filled epoxy system is roughly twice to three times that of a non aggregate filled epoxy system. But,...once again, you get what you pay for!

Just a little food for thought for you guys who have or are about to put down that do-it-yourself epoxy floor in your garage.

[KobraKarl]

Good post Bob, are you talking about "Tarazzo"?

KK

[Robert Evans]

KK,
No, terrazzo is a cement-based product that has colored decorative aggregate added to it, with the colored cement just used as a binder, and are usually 1/2" to 3/4" thick. The cement/aggregate covering is then ground smooth with large diamond grinders to create the final surface. Airports are the most common location for terrazzo floors.

[Rick Gregg]

I installed a porcelain tile floor in my garage about six months ago. It still looks brand new. When I use the jack, I put a plywood pad under it. The tile is black or white with black grout and a matte finish, so it isn't slippery. Don't forget many auto dealers are required by the manufacturer to have tile floors in their showrooms.

[GeorgiaSnake]

For existing concrete floors stain works well. It is not offered in as many cool colors but it is durable and will not lift or peel. Check out this one supplier http://www.kemiko.com See the do it yourself section.

Others are available if you do a search.

Randy

[Traveller]

Robert is correct in stating that if you garage floor was pored without a vapor barrier underneath you will most likely have hydrostatic water seepage up through the slab.

If you're contractor did not spend $20 on a sheet of visqueen, you had a pretty ****ty contractor and most likely have other issues with your home.

One way to find out is to take a piece of 1' x 1' clear plastic (Saran Wrap) and tape the edges to the floor so that it's air tight and leave it for a day or too.

If you see moisture condensing under the plastic you're garage would not be a good candidate for epoxy.

Epoxy floor coating are not inherently fragile. My plant uses epoxy throughout its manufacturing and warehouse areas and I have had years of experience applying and maintaining them.

We also use the “slurry” material Robert mentions as well. Ours is called "Stonehard". It's very expensive and not for most residential applications.

[Robert Evans]

OK, now if anyone wants to start talking about using concrete stains, that is an area that I have a very strong opinion on. They are a completely different animal to deal with and your chance of doing a successful do-it-yourself garage with chemical stains is very low. I would never recommend a chemical stain for a garage.

[Helter]

The installation of the porcelain tile was just completed in my garage.
I chose a terra cotta porcelain with a charcoal gray grout.
It looks fantastic. Instead of looking like a garage it now looks like and extension of the rest of my home. I'm glad I went with this.
Although their has been a lot of favorable comments on the Racedeck tiles, I honestly find their look a little cheesy for my taste. So they weren't really and option for me. If you like that look then it sounds like they hold up just fine.
My friend has had porcelain in their garage for three years now with no problems whatsoever.

The tile was around the same cost as a Pro shotblasting epoxy job I was quoted on.

[R U YELLA]

I don't understand what is wrong with plain old cement? Why would you cover it up in the first place?

Catch ya later
Ed

[Helter]

It all has to do with making your garage look great and/or more functional. Why not just have cement patios instead of brick pavers or wooden decks. It's the same idea, or how about a cement floor in the kitchen? Just doesn't look good.
Some of us are looking for the ultimate garage.

[mrud]

I put down black and white ceramic tile in my garage for my cobra to come. It looks fantastic. If it is put down right, floor will not cause tiles to crack. They use this in dealerships all of the time. I have dropped many heavy items and have not cracked one. (guess I was lucky) Yes you do have to be careful, but it is great looking.
Regards,
Mrud

[GeorgiaSnake]

For you tile guys make sure your tile is not a glazed product (pretty finish coating) it must be the same color top to bottom. If you drop a tool on a glazed tile you may not crack it but you can chip the surface and end up with an ugly ass floor.

Short Bob what is the problem with the stain or chemical treatments? Just curious here.

Randy