toploader in a Kirkham

ENTDOC · #1 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 07:00 AM

will a small spline input toploader be ok for a Kirkham with a 427? Also does it need to be a short tail version?What are your opinions on using a Tremec in this car? thanks;chuck

David Kirkham · #2 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 07:23 AM

Personally,

I have never liked the Tremec transmission. You have to cut the frame apart to get it to fit and usually one of the gears is worthless.

I drove one car with a Tremec in it and 1st gear was so low I had to shift before I got out of the intersection. The owner told me to just start out in 2nd...hmmm, why have a 5 speed if you just start in 2nd anyway?

I also think the Tremec devalues our car. (Now, I am just referring to the KIRKHAM car here and no one elses.) They are harder to sell.

We have found the best compromise is to run a wide ratio transmission. 1st gear is steeper than a close ratio and it makes street driving much more enjoyable. If you are smart, and put in a low (numerical) gear ratio--like a 3:31, or a 3:08 (like Pat Buckley) you can really have a cruiser of a car. I actually just drove a 2:88 and was extremely pleased with the performance. Cruising at 60 mph was only 2000 rpms. The car didn't want to step out nearly as much as a car with a 3:31--let alone the 3:54 or 3:73. (3:77 was the original gear ratio). I liked it so much I am going to put one in my car.

Of course, I am not the track type guy...just a mountain/canyon cruiser early in the mornings. Heck, I think the 2:88 would do fine on the track anyway (I ain't no Mario Andretti).

As for small input...DON'T. You will twist it off...I have seen it and held the broken parts in my hand for autopsy. (Not our car).

It is easiest if you run a Mustang tail housing. Others will work, but they are really not worth the pain.

Did Steve get you an e-mail so we can finish your car? We are ready when you are. Also, there are some really cool options coming up by the end of the week. (We don't announce until everything is in hand and ready.)

David

ENTDOC · #3 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 07:47 AM

David ,thanks for the advice.I emaild Steve about finishing my car to turn key minus;minus a few thinks(exaust ,coilovers,wheels and tires,differential,halfshafts) Let me know soon on the new options,I leave Thursday for a hunting trip to Alaska. chuck

ToyCollector · #4 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 08:05 AM

Chuck congrats on the purchase!!!!!!

I love Toplopaders, and David's advice is very sound of course. Interesting that Pat went with a 3.08. I would love to drive a car with that ratio and a 427 in it.

ENTDOC · #5 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 08:22 AM

TC,what tranny are you using?chuck

Jamo · #6 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 11:46 AM

David's on da money...my wide ratio big in/out (from Kee, who should be granted a monopoly by Congress--nice guy too) coupled with a 3.31 has been great around town, on the freeway and for pushing it.

BTW, David may not be a "Mario", but have him take you to the top of Squaw's Peak some morning. You'll get religion.

David Kirkham · #7 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 01:16 PM

Jamo,

As often as you were calling on diety on our ride up Squaw Peak, I would have sworn you were in a foxhole on "D" Day! Have you been able to remove the stain in the passenger's seat...

David

Lew Ledyard · #8 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 02:10 PM

Jamo:

If you had to do it all over again, would you still choose the 3.31 or would you opt for the 3.08? JUst wanted your opinion after you have been able to live with the car for a while. I am building a similar one, but I sprung for a paint job.

Jamo · #9 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 02:21 PM

The 3.31 feels just right. I have alot of motor...so 3.08s would probably work just fine, but my cam's a bit radical and likes to rev. Cruising at 70 mph is no big deal.

Second and third gears...oh my.

David...I keep thinking of those poor folks at the BYU graduation, a thousand or so feet below us, hearing my "words" echoing off the mountain.

ToyCollector · #10 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 03:37 PM

I am also going with a wide ratio toploader, big in and output. 3.31 rear end. I is what I had in my old SPF, and it was very nice happy medium, and could pull like a 750cc motorcycle from highway speeds. Actually better...

On a closed course

, of course.

Lew Ledyard · #11 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 03:39 PM

Jamo and TC:

Sounds like we will end up with pretty similar cars.

ToyCollector · #12 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 04:34 PM

Good taste and attention to detail tends to narrow the choices

shaps · #13 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 04:52 PM

FWIW, I went with a wide ratio and the 3.31....
According to the Kirkham's, a most streetable/driveable setup behind a 427.

David Kirkham · #14 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 05:26 PM

TC,

Are you waiting on a drive line from us?

David

ToyCollector · #15 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 06:28 PM

All you owe me is the driveshaft. You wanted me to call you once engine and tranny are in with exact measurement. Your phone may ring with that call in about a week or two. Great memory. Tranny is my doing. Driveshaft is the only thing (U-joints included?). And the only thing I ask on that is that it be quick but thorough.

David Kirkham · #16 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 09:06 PM

TC,

Hey, when I give you the shaft--I give you the whole shaft! Drive shaft, u-joints, differential flange, AND transmission yoke! Of course, this assumes you are using a top loader. Use one of those other trannys and...

David

Just waiting for the call. Let me know.

Turk · #17 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 11:57 PM

Aren't there any defenders of TKO II in here.
I had the Toploader and the TKO II.
Much prefer the TKO, modern quieter and strong. 5th gear does wonders for the prolomged highway drive.
Even the toploader guru David Lee, now is selling TKO II's.

Am I alone on this like I am on everything else?

TURK

wilf leek · #18 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 02:07 AM

I find it interesting that one of the most common differences between UK and USA cars is the rear end ratio.

"Standard" fitment here would be a 2.88 if using a 4 speed (like a toploader), 3.31 if using a 5 speed (like a TKO or TKOII).

I do find this funny, bearing in mind that by the time you are topping out in 4th, you have just about gone from one end of our little island to the other!

My own car has 3.31 rear end and a TKO. Only thing I would do different next time is to fit the TKOII with the shorter 5th gear, but for now, 100mph at 3000rpm makes for a great cruise.

Maybe it's a gas price thing - we can't afford for our engines to be doing much more than tickover on a run!

427 S/O · #19 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 05:46 AM

DavidK, thanks for sliding over in my corner, I've had the 2.88/wide ratio from day one, you wouldn't believe the poor mouthing I took for this set up but I love it. Come out of first at 55 and very controllable with the gas paddle.

Cal Metal · #20 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 06:50 AM

Turk:

Originality is one issue. Goofy first gear, like Tom said, is another issue. Search CC and look at the questions and some of the problems encountered by owners of Tremecs that you don't find with a T Loader. Put all that together and then add the "no spin" David Kee who will literally stand behind/in front/off to the side/of his Top Loader units makes the choice an easy one for me.