A close call and a big-time WARNING!

Tom Wells · #1 (**permalink**) 08-20-2003, 05:53 PM

Hi all,

Cliff & I had a close call Friday in turn 3 at Summit Point during the fourth of four track sessions..

We went off the road suddenly and flipped over. Cliff had a sore knee for two days and I broke, er, pulverized a wrist.

The potential culprit is the right rear lower suspension arm of the Jag suspension.

More info is at

CACC FATT thread

and some pics start at the bottom of the gallery at

CACC gallery wtih INDY's pics

There is more detail under other threads.

All I can say is phew!

A full exam of the car is scheduled within two weeks, so the theory about the wishbone failure is just that - a theory. Nonetheless, check yours - make sure no welding was done! Mine seemed to have a clean break near the hub end: more details in a couple of weeks.

Regards - Tom

Dan Semko · #2 (**permalink**) 08-20-2003, 07:25 PM

Tom,
Glad to hear and see that you personally sustained minor injuries. The glass can be repaired and the weather will be a constant reminder of the wrist injury BUT you're alive and reasonably unscathed.

Cracker · #3 (**permalink**) 08-20-2003, 07:31 PM

Thanks for the heads up Tom! I don't know you but am sure glad to see a fellow Cobra brother made it through as well as you did. It looks as though the roll bars did the job. Are they the stock units that come with the car or did you upgrade them to pure race units? Best wishes to a quick and comfy recovery!

Double Venom · #4 (**permalink**) 08-20-2003, 07:34 PM

Tom,
Damn fella! You do look better standing up!
Just an offer, not a solicitation, but if you want, I WILL make room in our shop for your sick snake. We'll take care of it, you take care of the wrist

DV... Thank goodness for a well built car with TWO roll bars!

RACERAL · #5 (**permalink**) 08-20-2003, 07:37 PM

Sorry about your bruises. Man, it could have been so much worse.. Just thinking back about the "bitten by the snake" video.. didn't some one loose a rearend in that and wreck at some track.. wonder if it was the same kind of thing....

Excaliber · #6 (**permalink**) 08-20-2003, 09:12 PM

Whoa! A sobbering tale. I'm listening. I'm also thinking about how the "flip top" got into car 198's oil at the Historics.

Now matter how good a driver you are, stuff happens you CANNOT control.

I'm SO glad you guys are all right, it could have been way different.

Ernie

CSX 4027 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-20-2003, 09:32 PM

Glad you are OK. I am interested to find what the problem was. On the real car the rear upright were known to fail. That's why Kirkham put so much R&D into theirs.

Tom T. · #8 (**permalink**) 08-20-2003, 09:37 PM

Tom,

From one Tom to another, very glad that things didn't turn out considerably worse. You need to get the reinforced control arms, billet or gusseted--I was happy with the CWI stuff, but there are probably other vendors too.

Take care of yourself,

Tom T.

CowtownCobra · #9 (**permalink**) 08-20-2003, 09:45 PM

Tom,

Did the car have a full width roll bar, a single hoop, or double hoops?

Glad y'all are not injured any worse than you are.

KobraKarl · #10 (**permalink**) 08-20-2003, 10:39 PM

Tom , sorry the cobra got a little bent up, but real glad to hear you are OK.

The rewelded (shortened ) sedan wishbones are notorious for this failure, anyone running Jag IRS should inspect and replace or reinforce a rewelded lower control arm.

the factory weld on the E-type is very fine and would be tough to confuse with a rewelded sedan unit.

again Tom, heres to a total recovery

KK

Tom Wells · #11 (**permalink**) 08-21-2003, 05:40 AM

Hi Tony & Dave,

The roll bars are the stainless Everett Morrison dual units that came with the kit. I like their appearance better than the full width unit, and they have one extra upright.

Hello DV,

Thanks for the offer! I called Fred Gimbel last weekend - he had already heard and is making room for the car by the end of next week!

Hello Tom,

I tried Mike at CWI yesterday and left a message. If he has some arms and axles, that's most likely what I'll do.

Hi KK,

The arms were supposed to be stock 3.8s/420 arms which are the correct length from Jag. That's the first thing we'll check.

Regards to all and

GET SOME ARM RESTRAINTS?

Tom

ac andy · #12 (**permalink**) 08-21-2003, 06:08 AM

Glad your ok. I was just discussing with my cobra builder tonight how we were going to strengthen the lower control arms and the drive shafts on the jag suspension in my car. I would be interested in the results when you find out what went bang. Get well quick.

Andy.

David Kirkham · #13 (**permalink**) 08-21-2003, 07:48 AM

Tom,

Bummer, hope you get better soon.

Sadly, this is not the first time I have heard about this. This problem has been going on for years. Any ideas on where we could post some of these potential problems to avoid even more serious injuries to our friends and Fellow Car Nuts?

Steve,

We forge our rear uprights out of 7075 T-6 aluminum. Probably the last part on the car to break! I just don't trust castings--especially ones that are made in low quantities where there is not enough time or money to get it right. Casting is still a "Black Art" and no matter what anyone says--I don't like using them. Ford casts millions of things--and pays millions of dollars to the foundry to get it right.

Currently, there are only two castings in our car. The aluminum differential housing (we have made hundreds of them now), and the rotors. (Wilwood has made thousands upon thousands of them.)

Nevertheless, I think all of this mess was caused by a welded control arm. I hate welds too. (You should see some of the original welded control arms! Oh man are they scary!) That is why we are now billeting most of our control arms. (Some simply can't be billeted because of their construction/geometry constraints--but they are TIG welded by a CERTIFIED aircraft welder--with FORGED ends.)

David

klayfish · #14 (**permalink**) 08-21-2003, 08:59 AM

Tom,
Get well soon. As you are a CACC member, I am guessing that part of your stengthening rehab for that wrist will be to lift 12oz cans.

Serioulsy, get well soon. You need to get ready for next season. I'm trying to work with ClubCranky to plan some big open track events for next year.

Steve

casaleenie · #15 (**permalink**) 08-21-2003, 09:19 AM

Where should I be looking for the welds on the Jag suspension???
Hope you both recover to 100%. Hopefully the wrist won't be a constant reminder....
Best of luck and I'll be looking for the posting after the investigation into the cause....
regards,
al

Clois Harlan · #16 (**permalink**) 08-21-2003, 09:20 AM

Tom,

First of all I am glad your injuries were minor.

I have looked at your pictures and I am amassed at how little damage your Cobra sustained. I know that a lot of the damage isn't avalilable for us to see but the damage to the glass windshield and some minor fiberglass damage seems to be all there is to repair except for the rearend configuration.

Good luck with your recovery.

Clois

Back in Black · #17 (**permalink**) 08-21-2003, 09:24 AM

Best wishes for a speedy recovery. This incident will set back your "guinea pig" status

(EFI test subject) for the rest of us that are about to install a Holley system. It is interesting to note that the 36 lb injectors do work after all, on this size/powered motor.

The troubles with various basic/donor IRS systems are why I went with the 9 inch straight axle rear system (and the West coast) it seems bulletproof. If I do change to a custom IRS later, it will be CWI.. I have inspected a CWI 9 inch center IRS install, firsthand at a local rod and custom shop...it at least LOOKS impressive!

Try taking lots of MSM (joint rebuilding sulpher) as an aid in healing..You can get it at Costco Ginseng will help too.

KobraKarl · #18 (**permalink**) 08-21-2003, 09:38 AM

Casaleenie,

the lower control arms consist of two forged ends (wishbone /differential side and hub side) connected with a piece of heavy tube. The tube is welded at the forgings with a very fine ,smooth bead maybe 3/16 wide and a total raise of 1/8 at the most. very obviously a factory job.

KK