AC enters the fray

[Mark IV]

...while AC has not been involved with any "World Champion cars" for some years, neither has CS. The last championship I am aware he had any REAL involvement in was 1970 and that was with a Toyota 2000 GT as racing contractor to Toyota USA with his Shelby Racing Company. (BTW, this is the deal that soured the Pete Brock/CS relationship, Brock thought he had the deal done but it was moved to SRC instead)

Also I suggest you research the actual amount of input CS had with the Viper, much like his "advisor" role in the new Ford GT, i.e. limited to signing the royalty checks...

Point ? Neither Shelby nor AC has been directly involved in world class racing for many years (the Shelby Can Am cars don' t really count, they were an SCCA class that was promoted via Dodge's money.) Maserati has not raced since the 1960s and Aston Martin until recently for longer than that, it does not seem to reduce the demand for their cars. Bentley has only now gone racing againg, dormant since the 1930's! Ferrari went through a long, dry spell and yet people still thought their product was worth what they asked....and more!

Investment potential? I wish I still had my cans of CS's Pit Stop Deodorant! They went up, while the chili mix sells at a discount! You pays your money and you takes your chances!

Face it, this issue will never be settled here. It is fought and won on the sales floor. People will vote with their money, and no one makes the wrong choice!

Rick

[Turk]

rem,
Obviously YOU have earned that right to come out swinging.

Yes, there is a "club" in here. Hence the name ClubCobra.
All we ask everyone, is to play nice, and understand that what you say when you have 2 posts to your name may not be as welcome as when you have 200.

It is a matter of earning and learning. Until the time you have been in here long enough for folks to know what you are about, and where your agenda and interest lie, they are a little more cautious than they would be by the time you have been a member in good standing.

Even if you have to post "drivel" to earn your spot, that is OK too. At least by then the members know what you are about and would be more tolerant since you are harmless.

I doubt it the time you have been in here is sufficiently long enough to understand the forum dynamics. It does not stop you from posting whatever you please, but it may make your stay more controversial.

I guess there is no magic number to go over before venom is welcomed.
Some do it during their debut, some hold on to it until provoked.

TURK

[pderouss]

Evan.

Please check you facts. An Ace with Bristol or Ford engine sells for around $80,000. The latest asking prices for Shelby Mustangs are typically in the $35,000 to $60,000 range. You also keep on making the assertion that AC Cobras sell for less than Shelby ones - can you please point me to the evidence that backs this up? You also ask when did AC/Autokraft last have an involvement in a world class car. I might equally ask what Shelby was doing to support Cobras in the 70's and 80's when they were first rebuilding them to keep the legend alive and then manufacturing them?

[REAL 1]

Are you saying that COB's sell for as much as CSX's????

Not to my knowledge do they sell for near as much.

If my recollection serves me correct didn't Shelby have involvement with the Viper??? Thats won a few titles hasn't it.

I'm not knocking AC. I'm just pointing out the fact that Shelby is central to what the Cobra is and was.

As to AC efforts to support the Cobra in the 70's and 80's please enlighten me. What did they do during that period.

[pderouss]

Evan.

I notice you do not respond to the Ace/Mustang pricing issue.

I asked for evidence on the AC versus Shelby pricing issue - not merely an ubsupported re-assertion of your view.

I think other people have already responded adequately on the level of involvement in the Viper.

I agree that Shelby had a key role in the Cobra - but, as we have discussed many times, you appear to underestimate the contribution of other parties.

I presumed you had knowledge of the AC/Autokraft activities in the 70' s and 80's. If not the best reference source's are the two Cobra "Gold Portfolios" which reprint contemporary articles on the subject. If you do not already have copies of these books I suggest you get them as they provide a wealth of information.

[REAL 1]

I have a general recollection of Autokrafts activities in the 80's from my reading. I don't see where they contributed in any great way to the support of the Cobra. It seemed to me that the replica industry gets the majority of the credit for that during that time period.

As to CSX's being worth more than COB's, again this is based on my general recollection from past readings. I can't this minute cilte you any specific sales #s as to COBs. Are you saying I'm wrong and that origianl COBs are selling for the same $$$ as an equivilent original CSX???? Please provide the data.

I believe I am correct as to CSX's selling for considerably more than an equivilent COB. If I'm wrong please post the proof.

As to the Mustang GT vs. Ace, I'll admit I did not realize the Ace was selling for that much. I thought they were selling for around $50,000 to $60,000.00. I don't follow the Ace that closely. Do you have actual sales figures?

I would suggest that the value of the Ace, although I can't prove this, is in large part due to CS and the link the car has to the Cobra. Seems logical.

[Hal Copple]

i know, me again, but i just can't sit here and not say something.

I sincerly hope that as i get older, and my son Chris does likewise, even though he is presently a Porsche guy, that he demonstrates the same level of dogged appreciation and relentless devotion to me that you do to ole Carroll Shelby. I hope he always sticks up for me, no matter what i do. I bet that you and CS share identical DNA, excepting a single Simplex.

I gotta hand it to you, you have about the most loyal heart of any guy that ever posted here. I should do so well as a dad.

By the way, i have no idea if there is such a thing as a DNA "simplex', it just seems to sound so scientific. There is a Herpes Simplex, though, the one that makes those nasty blisters on our lips in the summer.

Hang in there, Evan, Stay the Course, Keep the Faith, we are rooting for you.

your old friend,

[casaleenie]

Mohammed Saeed al Sahaf ....."trust me, there are no American troops within 100 miles of the gates of Bagdad"...

Evan.... "trust me, I drive a real Cobra. Carroll told me this when he sold it to me... "are you saying that I'm wrong"

[Great Asp]

Evan,

Shame on you, you posted:

"I would suggest that the value of the Ace, although I can't prove this, is in large part due to CS and the link the car has to the Cobra. Seems logical."

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!, No Facts to back up a statement made by you?

Are you on medication of some type? Dr. Dan Semko might write a prescription for "guessing".....hehehehe

Eric

[rem]

CAN WE HAVE A GROUP HUG??? PLEASE!!??

[computerworks]

Originally posted by rem


CAN WE HAVE A GROUP HUG??? PLEASE!!??

What a great idea!

Evan...you need a hobby to fill your free time.

[Dan Semko]

What a way to end a Monday.
Eric wants a generic prescription for Evan (Viagra won't help anyone in New Jersey, something about being too close to the Hillary state)
and Rem wants a group hug?
I wonder if we can all get counseling under the cobra "family" plan?

[Bill Wells]

'recollections' remind me of 3 sides to every story : "yours/mine and the facts" ...basically recollections are useless. woud not stand up in court, REALly.

eric/ dan, is the generic prescription or group hug counseling covered under Blue Cross/Blue Shield ?

some threads become similar to ' things' in toilets, some are floaters and some are sinkers. FLUSH.............LOL . bill.

[Dan Semko]

Bill,
I believe that there's a ICD9 code for generics AND the group hug, however reimbursement by BC/BS is difficult unless suppositories are ordered.

[Excaliber]

Seems pretty obvious to me the value of the Ace is linked to the legend of the Cobra. DUH! Like it would take a rocket scientist to make that connection? What that means good bad or ugly I don't know, I'm not a rocket scientist!

Ernie

[acaskie]

While I'm sure the value of an Ace Bristol has benefitted measurably from the Cobra connection---and, by the way, Evan, $80,000 is not an extreme price for a fine example---they were beautiful, hand-built, aluminum-bodied, successful race cars. Look at the prices of any of the hand-built, aluminum racers of that era, as opposed to mass-produced, steel-bodied island iron, and you will see some strong prices.

By the same token, however, much of the allure of the Cobra derives not simply from it's race history, but because of the beautiful AC body lines. I didn't know beans about Cobra race records when I saw my first red, chrome wire-wheeled slabside parked on the street out in front of Cherner Ford's showroom in Arlington, Virginia in 1964. But I knew I had to have that car. Up to that point, I was just the proud owner of a hot-rodded '55 Ford Custom. Detroit iron was all anyone had. But that first glimpse of the Cobra was a revelation. Somewhere in my brain it all clicked--this is what a car was really supposed to look like. (I probably would have had the same sensation if I had come across a real live 250 Testa Rossa , but I didn't; so I emprinted on the Cobra. Thank goodness--those TR replicas with genuine Ferrari V-12s cost a lot more than any 4000 series)

Query to self: If a TR repro is made with all original Ferrari parts except for a newer aluminum body, is it a REAL Ferrari? What if Enzo's grandson had visited the garage where it was being put together and said, " Thatsa nice. Ima like it." Would that be enough of a connection to make it REAL?

Sorry, disgressing.

Anyway, AC owes a lot to Shelby, but Shelby's success surely owes a lot to AC as well. Most objective folks--and I mean by that people who don't think that Shelby fills out a foursome with God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost-- would not have too much trouble seeing that.

[REAL 1]

AC is an important part of the original Cobra equation. No doubt. Their role, however, was in a way much more fortuitous than Shelby's. They were in the right place, at the right time with a body and chasis looking for a second wind. They had the base for what Shelby needed. Shelby proactively built on that and improved it and made it a legend.

There is no doubt the AC Ace had beautiful lines though. Clearly, without AC there would be no Cobra, at least how we know it presently.

I am not trying to demean or denegrate AC's role. I just looking at history from a factual perspective.

If a TR Ferrari was made with all Ferrari parts including Ferrari chasis, yeah I think it would qualify as a real Ferrari with a re-body.

I love you guys! What a scream!



BTW: I was told that a perfect example of a GT500 would probably sell for $100,000.00 by a mustang "expert" at a cruise night a few weeks ago. Is this accurate? What would a GT350R sell for? Just asking.

BTW part 2: Allen, I grew up in Great Falls. Went to Langley H.S. routinely beat McLean H.S. in football. Go Saxons!

[acaskie]

Evan,

When I was growing up, there was no Langley HS. However, I went to St. Stephen's in Alexandria. I did go to some of the Great Falls tractor pulls on Friday nights. It was a hoot to mingle with the rustics.

[Dan Semko]

Evan,
I didn't know that football was even a sport when you were that young. Now we understand how you REAly got your physique.....those water buckets get pretty heavy!

[KeithBrown]

Originally posted by REAL 1



BTW part 2: Allen, I grew up in Great Falls. Went to Langley H.S. routinely beat McLean H.S. in football. Go Saxons!

Evan,

I grew up in Springfield and went to high school at Lake Braddock in Burke. One of my fellow 4,000+ Bruins was Mike Powell, current FCC chairman and son of Colin Powell.

Small world,

Keith