best handling cobra? - Page 3

Excaliber · #42 (**permalink**) 10-27-2003, 11:28 PM

Hello? Expedia.com? Yeah, it's me. Listen I'm gonna need airline tickets to Willow Springs next October, you got 'em?

Good,,,,,Richard is gonna open a can of whup ass and I just GOTTA be there! OH,,,one more thing, I might have to cancel 'cause theres a good chance nobody got's the balls to show up and run against a JBL in stock trim!

.....there, that oughtta stir things up!

Ernie

Boudy · #43 (**permalink**) 10-27-2003, 11:37 PM

Don't worry Ernie. We won't leave Richard standing in the shoot all alone. It ain't about the balls, it's about the cars.

Way to go Richard! It'll be a blast.

Boudy

a427sc · #44 (**permalink**) 10-28-2003, 05:57 AM

I know I'm a little behind on this thread, but I can't hold off commenting on a post from page one. I find it iffy to believe that Murray did 2.06's at the Glen. Was there any documented timing or maybe a hotlap timer? I can believe Rich H did a 2.09 in the JBL if the motor was fairly hot, as the JBL is a very competent chassis (and RH is a great driver). But PLEASE, 2.11's before the car was dialed in Steve? I ran with you at the Glen once, and so have others that I know. Your just not that fast. 2.14's maybe, but no way 2.11's in that car "BEFORE" dialing in and with the old brake setup. I have a documented 2.12.57, ( see the COMSCC.ORG website under track records, SPA for the Glen) and I KNOW you could never catch me.

If I'm wrong, prove it and I will stand corrected and appologize.

Don Durner

scottj · #45 (**permalink**) 10-28-2003, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boudy

Scott: I think that the times tell the actual story at Run & Gun. There were several cars in the 108s and any driver skilled enough to turn 108s has the skill to turn 107s if the car will allow it. Tony did what he did in a basically production car against some very talented drivers in cars built to race. Let's not pretend he was the only good driver at the event.

The BDR is not purpose built from the ground up to race. It's an all around driver without adjustable suspension, brake bias, race shocks, and other track only gadgets and goodies. With that said, we'll gladly slap on some stiffer springs (even heat them with a torch to get the ride height back down) and run head to head with any purpose engineered race car. Even the JBL.

This challange thing sounds fun. A little friendly head to head is good for the soul. After all, we're all here cause we love driven' these darn machines no matter who makes em'.

Boudy

Boudy- I agree that there were several other Cobra drivers (2 or 3 I think) with those times and that they likely (for the sake of discussion) got every bit from their car that it was capable of giving. I’ll also accept the conclusion (for the sake of discussion) that the BDR handled better than those cars, considering that the other cars weren’t down on power any.

Wouldn’t you agree though, that there were far more drivers that were not talented enough to drive their car to its potential? And if that is true, then a conclusion can’t be reached as to the handling potential of that car and accurate comparisons to the BDR can’t be made. Certainly you wouldn’t expect a first time road course participant to run as fast as Tony whether they were driving a BDR or any other make, would you? And when that rookie ran slower in the BDR than Tony, would you want to conclude anything about the BDR handling?

As I said before, I’m not trying to take anything away from BDR. I was actually very impressed by the strong showing. I’m saying that while the times are the facts, the story told is conjecture.
Scott

Nuke427 · #46 (**permalink**) 10-28-2003, 10:37 AM

Whether it was the car or not that pushed Mr. Tony Martin to such fast times, doesn't really matter to me. He is in charge of building these cars and if he can drive that damn good to post those times with lessor equipment, I'd hate to see him when he upgrades any shortcomings he may have noticed during his display of ass whipping. Most of you better hope the car propelled him to low times, or next time when the car is perfected, he'll really make you look bad.

Boudy · #47 (**permalink**) 10-28-2003, 10:59 AM

Scott: First off, thanks for the comments on our car. I'm not attacking, just discussing.(I wanted to clarify, you know how some threads wind up

)

I agree fully. We can't consider the BDR, hands down, the best handling car on the market due to one showing. We needed to turn some heads and shut up some of the nay sayers and the results were great.

You'll see our cars in many classes with various drivers soon. You don't think we're gonna stop at one event with one fast lap now, do you?

Oh, BTW: You mentioned power, our tranny was broken so we couldn't use 5th gear. It's tongue was hanging out at 7400 by the flag stand. Also, the brand new engine coughed up several bent and broken pushrods upon inspection on Monday.

I honestly don't think our lap times were a good indicator of the car's true potential.

Boudy

Colonial Cobra · #48 (**permalink**) 10-30-2003, 06:12 PM

If you look at the SCCA Pro SOLO events. They all seam to be dominated by FFR Cobra's.
And the top three times on the Auto-x track at spring Fling III were also FFR's. (All street cars driven to the event).
Don't know of the others mentioned here.
It would be interesting to se how they stack up.

Brad

coyled · #49 (**permalink**) 11-04-2003, 08:19 AM

Guys, it really does not matter which brand you have as far as handleing goes in a cobra or who is fastest. Its about set up, tires, brakes, power and mostly driver. Any of these cobra's can be made to handle on any type of course relative to other cobra's. Scott

Colonial Cobra · #50 (**permalink**) 11-04-2003, 03:25 PM

Fastest cobra's

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/sho.../enduro03.html

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffr...intagewin.html

Excaliber · #51 (**permalink**) 11-04-2003, 04:02 PM

Links above referrence HIGHLY MODIFIED FFR's.

Care to run those against a HIGHLY MODIFIED anything else?

Lets say a BDR, Renegrade, JBL or Shelby "spec racer"?

Ernie

a427sc · #52 (**permalink**) 11-04-2003, 07:56 PM

These cars are not highly modified. They are Spec racers as built by the mfg within the rules of the class. They ARE highly developed, a small but significant difference.
The point is that there are no places for replica "Cobras" to race except for the FFR Spec deal, so of course the "fastest Cobra" based on race results will always fall to FFR Spec's . Events like Run & Gun and the now defunct No. East Replica Challenge try to break things down into classes based on preparation, but it's still time trials, not fender to fender racing.
So, does a highly developed FFR with a very basic chassis design and little motor have the stuff to beat a more exotic chassied, bigger motored car marginally developed?

McFEZ, owner of a highly developed, semi exotic, big moder'd ERA

Richard Hudgins · #53 (**permalink**) 11-04-2003, 08:07 PM

McFez,

I'm still waiting for folks to step up to the plate.

It appears to me that the chassis race challenge is a dead issue due to lack of interest.

Jeez, who woulda thunk that?

a427sc · #54 (**permalink**) 11-04-2003, 09:13 PM

Dr H

It sure would be fun to watch a bunch of cars compete like you have set up. Even more fun to drive (hint-hint). But my car is definately not what you want per your rules. The variety of preperation levels ala R&G and NERC open things up a lot, letting independent owners join in. But that isn't the focus of your original challenge, is it.

I got an idea. If they won't come to you, take your entry on the road to open track and time trial events across the country. Let the independents have the home track advantage to offset your skills. Against the clock would be easy to know what's what. And if it's open track with no timing, who passes who tells the tale. See you at the Glen??

McFEz

coyled · #55 (**permalink**) 11-05-2003, 09:18 AM

Richard, I think there is a lack of response from the manufacturers because their market is really not open tracking, its street driving. The JBL is the only current cobra or maybe the renegade designed with open track in mind. Anyway, maybe you have 2 classes to get more entries. One class as you have outlined, the as advertised cobra with hoosiers. The next group would be any cobra, any motor, any tires, and any driver. Transponders on a friday at willow springs, the original cobra track. At the end of the day, lap times will tell the story in both classes. You could have a write up on each cobra at the end of the event as far as modifications and driver go. Mcfez, you in? Scott

FSAEracer03 · #56 (**permalink**) 11-09-2003, 12:23 AM

You claim the FFR spec racer as a highly developed cobra, yet don't mention the fact that JBL appears to be clearly setup for track use. No offence to anyone, but does any one else notice how much the JBL looks more like a cross between a cobra replica and a Lotus 7 replica? The FFR might be developed, but the JBL is also pretty damn fixed on having a low c.g. and track-based suspension (less than 1" suspension deflection in braking and acceleration for the series 4!)

Also, how can price NOT play a role in the decision?? It seems to be fairly true that money can make anything faster around a track. The spec racers are $14k kits and are available for about ~25k if you do your own work, or ~35k if you dont.

No affiliations here, I'm just stating my opinion. And before someone gets offended... I'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers in any way here... it's all love

Kevin

strictlypersonl · #57 (**permalink**) 11-09-2003, 03:24 PM

It would be fun to participate in a track contest, but I think that the results are pretty much pre-ordained. The previous comments are correct: The JBL is highly biased toward track performance. That's not necessarily a good or bad thing. It's just a matter of the designer's intent and the buyer's preference.

The ERA tries to be a good street car, attempting a balance between ride and handling - when driven on roads that are less than perfect. With relatively minor mods, it can also be a pretty good track car , based on its stiff chassis.

But stock? We might come in second.

Dominik · #58 (**permalink**) 11-16-2003, 10:34 PM

good day,

where does the BDR come from?
that is not the "KCC" from Johannesburg (South Africa), isn't it?

Dom, Cape Town

Excaliber · #59 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 01:22 AM

It was my understanding the Back Draft Racing replica is indeed from South Africa. Runs an interesting BMW suspension.

WHERE in South Africa leaves me baffled!

Ernie

Dominik · #60 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 09:55 PM

Ernie,

interesting. I just read in their bruchure that their car is known as Backdraft Roadster in the US.
The BMW suspension was more a necessity than a new development to improve the car. jaguar parts are getting expensive over here.

But it worked out alright as I can tell from your posts!!

I just bought one of them, but built from a former race driver with an even better rear suspension. Front is also BMW McPherson (E36? model).

double wishbones (parallel) in the rear (I must admit, I do not know the rear of the "original" BDR).

handles brilliantly!

Dom, Cape Town