Quality concerns between a $25k and $50K Cobra?

[mattr762]

For a while now I've had my standard pretty high with the quality of $50,000ish Cobra. Excluding the motor and tranny what makes it better than a $25,000 Cobra?

Here are my first thoughts, let me know if I'm correct or not.
Quality of body - fiberglass thickness? symmetrical? smoothness?
Paint quality - 10 foot reflection vs orange peel?
Quality of frame - need help here, boxed? tubed? Obviously you want to be able to handle tons of torque, but is there overkill?
Suspension - made like the original? better than original? Donor mustang?
Rear Diff - straight axle, jaguar?
Brakes - Size? brand?
Chrome - does this make a big difference in price? sidepipes, roll bar, etc...
interior - need help. how close to the original? comfort? quality? 2 point vs 4 point seatbelts?

When you put a $25k cobra next to a $50k cobra are you gonna say "WOW!" look how much better the $50K car looks?

[mrmustang]

Matt,

I know of some truly beautiful $25,000 Cobras, and some truly $65,000 Cobras (and vice versa). If you park the two next to each other, your going to say, how great that lesser priced car is than that greater priced car. Each one is custom built to a particular owners taste. Some use Mustang parts, Jaguar parts, even MGB parts in their suspensions, as long as they are set up properly for the materials used, they may handle in a similar fashion for the same driver. Obviously a straight axle car will handle different than a IRS car, but at the same time, a Jaguar IRS, will handle in a similar fashion to a T-Bird IRS set up as well...............Apples to apples is the only way to compare one car sitting next to another.........Nothing more really needs to be said...


Sincerely,

Bill S.

Originally posted by mattr762


When you put a $25k cobra next to a $50k cobra are you gonna say "WOW!" look how much better the $50K car looks? [/b]

[Excaliber]

Almost impossible for the average man on the street to pick which of the two Cobras parked next to each other is the "high dollar" car!

The closer you get to original specs the more the cost goes up! Original specs is an illusive goal however. FIA car? Street 289 car? S/C 427? Street 427? Which CSX numbered car are we talking about, as they varied a LOT in how they looked!

"MY" version of "original" would be:
427 S/C car. Black painted side pipes, very little if ANY chrome on anything! Halibrand wheels and of course great paint with a stripe! This is a fairly "under stated" car when your done.

Not a lot of "flash" COMPARED to the $25K parked next to you with: Chrome on lots of stuff, polished (but incorrect) wheels, solid axle (but you can't see that), 302 all painted up nicely and looking good (but it aint no 427 is it), 5 speed (but you can't "see" that). Custom "cool" interior, etc. etc.

I bet the AVERAGE guy on the street would pick the low budget car as "looking" the "best" and costing the most! I don't care what HE thinks, I KNOW the other one is "really" by far the better car! And if you hang with other Cobra owners, they know it too!

Ernie

[Mr.Fixit]

Originally posted by Excaliber


Almost impossible for the average man on the street to pick which of the two Cobras parked next to each other is the "high dollar" car!

Absolute B.S.

We had cobras of all types in the shop, the average layman's 12 year old daughter could tell the difference between the $25K and the $50K+ cars. When parked in the same parking lot. Any cobra on it's own is going to be the coolest car in the parking lot, but when they sit side by side, you see where the extra $30K went.

[Excaliber]

Mr Fix it:

I took first place PEOPLES CHOICE in a car show recently.

I took LAST when the Judging was done by guys who KNEW what to look for in a Cobra.

I've parked next to an SPF that is worth WAY more than my Excal. The "people" could not tell. The 12 year olds PREFERRED my car. Maybe it was the "chrome" roll bar and sidepipes?

You must have some real ugly 25K Cobras around your neck of the woods. We got some here that LOOK dam good!

If it's ONLY about "looks" WHY a guy would bother to buy an SPF at considerably more cost leaves me baffled! Spend the money on some chrome and a nice paint job. 90% of the people CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE!

Ernie

This car is offered at $29K right now! For "looks" it appears to be an EXCELLENT car. As nice "looking" as any out there at any price! AND the "specs" on this car are darn good also!

http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/s...at=500&thumb=1

[TomH]

Ernie,

To support your point of view, it's pretty easy to get from $25 to $50K and not be able to see it on the outside of the car.

- Labor for a turnkey minus versus a kit
- SO FE versus SBF
- Brembo brakes versus donor take offs
- IRS versus Solid Rear End
- NA versus blown
- T-56 versus T5

Can a builder/owner/car nut spot the elements of a $50K build? Of course, "period correct" is expensive, as is high performance. But build quality and component quality are very different issues.
At DVSF, you could see enough high quality low cost builds to answer the "quality concerns" question. I guess you had to be there.

[klayfish]

Bill S. makes a very good point, you can see excellent $25K cars and not so good $75K cars, and vice versa. Build quality is important here.

Besides some of the purely obvious things, such as paint quality, motor quality, etc... it really is just a matter of taste. Is it worth it to you to have a more correct looking interior? That could be debated for hours on end, but when it comes down to it, only you can decide which one you want (assuming both are well put together). Do you value a 427SO motor, or would you be happy with a big block?

I don't know that I could have afforded a $50K car (I'm about 35K into mine now) at the start. But even if I could have, for me, and it's just my own values, I don't think I would have wanted to spend the extra money. I valued a car that looked nice, was fast, fun to drive and I could autox/open track. I wasn't too concerned with originality, correct motor, etc... I wanted to have fun.

What is important to you in your Cobra?

Steve

[Mr.Fixit]

How about:
colored gel coat instead of nice paint
bolt-on wheels vs. knock off wheels
vinyl vs. leather
correct dash layout with Smith's gauges vs. random dash w/ VDO
IRS vs. solid rear end
4 wheel disks vs. drum in the rear
ceramic coated headers vs. peeling and rusty paint


THE OVERALL LEVEL OF DETAIL CARRIED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE CAR

All the little things add up, and you just aren't going to get as far with half the budget. I worked in a cobra shop with all levels of cobras in it, and trust me, people know the difference, they might not be able to put their thumb on every difference, but they do see the differences.

[Excaliber]

Well actually your point is well taken Mr Fixit.

When a guy gets "serious" about buying it doesn't take long for the "big picture" to start to come through. Thats when the differences start to come clear. At a local "cruise in" at Wendys on a Saturday night, the "difference" is much harder to detect!

Ernie

[KobraKarl]

Mattr,
you know" there is no free lunch,"

high end cars cost more because they use better components, more components, more labor, better labor,

you have pointed out some worthy considerations...

I shopped a couple years before I plunked down my dough, and I looked at a lot of cars (hours on the net ,flew into orange county twice) ...If it was cheaper....there was always a reason...live axle not IRS...IRS but not Watts....Watts but old style axles.......watts , new axles, but original control arms.....ETC.

that goes for instruments, steering , brakes, interior,engine , gearbox ,shifter,winsheild, electrics, wheels/hubs,PAINT........beware of "imitation bargains"

If you build your own, you pretty much have to pay market $ to your vendors...you may end up with what you want ..but it probably will not be a bargain.

There are good deals out there used ,and after a while you can easily recognize one.

The trick is , DONT do something like, settle on a $2000.00 discount for a mediocre paint job when ultimately you will spend $10.000.00 redoing it.

find the best deal you can......buy the best you can afford.

Good luck, KK

[Dirty Harry]

Great question!

I'm the owner of a home-built Shell Valley car that has kept me grinning for years now. I've got $22.6K in it. That makes it one of the lower priced cars you'll see at the Fling or other Cobra gathering.

Park it next to an ERA, SPF, Unique, etc. and the difference becomes apparent right away. In fact, I was recently parked next to the Doctors Semko at a local cruise-in. Any car guy should have readily walked away from my car to give his attention to the much more impressive SPF, and some did.

When I show it at a car show where there are only the normal collection of muscle cars and hot rods, it gathers the lion's share of attention and comments. When I drive it down the road or through town, I get a bunch of thumbs up and shouted approval.

Point is, I built what I could afford to build, and it looks darn good. Park it next to a primo car, though, and you can't help but notice that the wheels are not Halibrand style, the rear axle is a 9", the tranny is a T5, the engine is a 351, the seats are vinyl, the sidepipes are VHT painted, the guages are VDO, it has a CD player (oh, MY!), and the butt is perky.

On the other hand, it is incredibly quick, very reliable, looks sharp, impresses the heck out of all but Cobra-knowledgeable folk, and makes me a happy fellow. I've had as much fun at the last 3 DVSF events as anyone there. From the standpoint of smiles/per/dollar, I feel like I built the right car. It's the first car I ever built and I like it a lot. Just the same, 2 or 3 times the money would have bought me a nicer car, that's true, but I'm writing checks to 2 universities right now, and it's important that they not bounce. Great thread!

[BB427]

If the right person finishes the right kit the gap between 25 and 50K can get pretty small. Yes, the components will tell the tale to the educated eye, however, that group is smaller than you think. Many people buy a factory built car and have a crate engine installed and have their oil changed at speedy lube. To some ownership is the most important thing.To some people building it is the reward.

Which are you????

"Quality" is a tough word to define. It means different things to different people.

Your likes and dislikes will seldom match others. Buy what you like, what you can afford, and what you have the means to finish. Some people take on more than they can handle and get burn out or run out of $$ before it is done. If you never finish it or if you buy what "other people" told you to, will you be happy??

Good luck & Have FUN

Brent

[avanti-176]

Dirty Harry,
Great Post, that is exactly how I feel (and exactly how everyone here should feel).

I wouldn't hesitate to say that the guys with the $20,000 cars have just as much fun and are just as happy as the guys with the $ 70,000 Kirkhams. I know I do!

Have a good one,
Dan

[BB427]

"SMILES PER DOLLAR"


Well that just about covers every damn topic ever discussed here.


Good one Harry!!!


Brent

[Edley Rondinone]

When I was in the market for a complete Cobra two years ago, I had a budget of $30,000-$40,000. I wanted a nice paint job, a Ford Engine, manual trans, and some chrome. Mainly on Cobra Country:
25k got a 302/auto/rear drums,
or a BBC 454/auto/double-wide rollbar.
30k-40k got a 351W/5spd/discs/solid rear.
40k-50k got a 427/428/toploader/discs/9 inch
50k plus got a 427/428/toploader/discs/IRS/maybe pin drives
60k plus got a 427/428/toploader/discs/IRS/and Webers/probably pin drives
I finally bought a $35k 351W/5speed/discs/solid/great paint/polished aluminum in engine compartment, and am happy as can be. No real answers here; buy the best YOU can afford. Shop around.

[mattr762]

All you guys are great! Thanks for the responses.

I'd like to see a longer version of this:

colored gel coat instead of nice paint
bolt-on wheels vs. knock off wheels
vinyl vs. leather
correct dash layout with Smith's gauges vs. random dash w/ VDO
IRS vs. solid rear end
4 wheel disks vs. drum in the rear
ceramic coated headers vs. peeling and rusty paint

For example I didn't realize the $25K car would only have vingle seats...

If I were to build my own I'd like to see a long list like this so I could pick and choose what was and wasn't important to me.

Anyone willing to expand on this list?

[Edley Rondinone]

mattr762: I think you are looking at the "list" in the wrong way. You MAY find a $25k Cobra with leather, but a late-model 302 with that big, honkin' FI unit on top of the engine, drum brakes at the rear, and maybe an automatic. Vinyl or leather should be the least of your concerns, as that is the easiest and cheapest to replace. Probably a realistic outlook to buy a Cobra is:
1. Price. How much can you spend?
2. Build it yourself and wait 'til you do, or buy a complete Cobra, and drive right away.
3. Registration in your state. Okla may be easier than Calif.
4. Use of the car. What are you gonna do with your Cobra?Carshows, daily driver/weekend toy, racing, drag stripping.
5. Originality. Does it matter to YOU? Round or rectangular frame, original gauges and layout, 15" or 17" wheels, Toploader, Tremec, or auto.
Look at the Cobras for sale on Cobra Country. Get an idea what you want to do, and how much you can afford. We actually need MORE information from you, so we can better help you out. Good luck!

[CSX 4027]

What's the difference.

I don't know what you get for $25,000 because I have not looked into that market but, Right Now..
.......For $39,995 you get A Shelby CSX 4000 car with a Title and his signature. In 10 years he may not be around anymore so what you have will be impossible to duplicate at the price.

To me, there is no other choice unless they don't deliver which I think there is little chance of...

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by Dirty Harry


Great question!

I'm the owner of a home-built Shell Valley car that has kept me grinning for years now. I've got $22.6K in it. That makes it one of the lower priced cars you'll see at the Fling or other Cobra gathering.

Park it next to an ERA, SPF, Unique, etc. and the difference becomes apparent right away. In fact, I was recently parked next to the Doctors Semko at a local cruise-in. Any car guy should have readily walked away from my car to give his attention to the much more impressive SPF, and some did.

When I show it at a car show where there are only the normal collection of muscle cars and hot rods, it gathers the lion's share of attention and comments. When I drive it down the road or through town, I get a bunch of thumbs up and shouted approval.

Point is, I built what I could afford to build, and it looks darn good. Park it next to a primo car, though, and you can't help but notice that the wheels are not Halibrand style, the rear axle is a 9", the tranny is a T5, the engine is a 351, the seats are vinyl, the sidepipes are VHT painted, the guages are VDO, it has a CD player (oh, MY!), and the butt is perky.

On the other hand, it is incredibly quick, very reliable, looks sharp, impresses the heck out of all but Cobra-knowledgeable folk, and makes me a happy fellow. I've had as much fun at the last 3 DVSF events as anyone there. From the standpoint of smiles/per/dollar, I feel like I built the right car. It's the first car I ever built and I like it a lot. Just the same, 2 or 3 times the money would have bought me a nicer car, that's true, but I'm writing checks to 2 universities right now, and it's important that they not bounce. Great thread!

Dirty Harry,,

You got my attention with your rational....Makes perfect sense to me... I've seen great cars at both ends of the spectrum..Possibly a nicer car for more money but the smile stays the same...
"Just do it"

[Excaliber]

Edley's break down on "cost" and what you get is pretty darn accurate! Well,,,,,at least it was a year ago! The market has been in such turmoil in the last year it's REALLY hard to nail down the value of a mid to lower end car.

There are some GREAT buys out there for under or right at $30K now (yes, leather too)!

CSX4027 makes a strong case for a "real" Shelby! But that is a "roller" so figure out what the motor, trans and labor will add.

The "high end" cars are much more "stable" in this current market, holding their value well.

The problem is this: HOW does a new guy know what to look for at what price in the middle of the pack cars? There ARE some fabulous buys out there, but there are ALSO some folks who have priced their "mid pac" TO high for the current market.

By the time you get your SECOND Cobra (like I'm doing) you will have figured it out,

Ernie