Superformance Brock Coupe

[TerrysSPF]

I don't care much for the white rims that come on the car. Makes it look a little "cheap", if you ask me. I saw a coupe a couple weeks ago while at Dynamic in Ohio and it looks awsome up close (most pictures I've seen don't do it justice). Beautiful car, inside and out. They said it will go 200+mph! The car they had there, had 5-spoke polished rims and looked much better. I have pictures I want to post but I have to figure out that damn Kodak "Savonphoto" website to transfer my pic's! The car looks awsome with the 5-spokes.......I'll keep trying with the pic's.

[G.R.]

My uderstanding is even the white wheels won't be the ones--though they were often white on the original coupes

[MysteryTrain]

I suppose the Datsun reference is kind of accurate, but let's remember which one came first. To say the Daytona Coupe looks like a Datsun 280Z is like saying the Great Egyptian Pyramids look a lot like the MGM Grand hotel in Vegas. It's more fitting to put it the other way around. Though, I guess the Daytona owes its looks to Ferrari's GTO which came before? Anyway, Vegan, this is a good thread. Sure to draw much debate. I personally think the Coupe is quite beautiful, but certainly in a different way than a "regular" Cobra. I do prefer the lines of the 427, 289 FIA and even the 289 slabbies to the coupe. But the already substantial Cobra legend was taken to another level with the perfomance of those original Daytonas, and obviously Dodge was smitten enough with them to basically crib the design cues for the Viper GTS, (which I think outsold the RT/10 at the end of its' run) a few years ago.

Big ups to P. Brock and SPF!

MTrain

P.S. I like the white wheels.

[Randall Thomas]

Good points made by the mysterious one...

1) To say the Daytona Coupe looks like a Datsun 280Z is like saying the Great Egyptian Pyramids look a lot like the MGM Grand hotel in Vegas. It's more accurate to put it the other way around.

2) I personally think the Coupe is quite beautiful, but certainly in a different way than a "regular" Cobra.

/Randall

[Cal Metal]

Very nice tribute by Richard Hudgins. I wholeheartedly agree: Pete Brock has never gotten the credit he so richly deserves. He was a major force in the Cobra success story, very much like Phil Remington.

I am pleased, too, it is called the "Brock" Coupe. A nice touch, and at the price they are asking, it should keep a lot of competitors at bay. A stoke of genius by SPF, to be sure.

The Coupes were the second "leg" in the Cobra saga. An incredible design that worked very well. Without Brock and his great engineering intuition, the Coupe story would have been a non starter, and the Cobra legacy would lie somewhere between the Tiger and the Corvette.

[Randall Thomas]

As long as you mention it, why did Peter not get the credit, and what did he all have to do with the Coupe.

I asked him and he's too humble to say anything other than "I did some things". ;-)

So what is the history behind the man?

/thanks Randall

[computerworks]

Randall... there is a good article
right here that gives an nice snapshot of Coupe history and Brock's involvment.



I can understand vegan's point... the respect and admiration for the coupe is eclectic... it is much stronger within the real long-time Cobra guys. There is very little "brand-recognition" to the layman when a Coupe is seen... the real Cobra guy gets real sweaty, though, when you see one in person.

It was the Coupe that won the Championship, not the open roadsters.

Remember, we've had 25 years of roadster replicas... it's only been a few years that decent Coupe replicas have been available... so the excitement is there when a beauty like this comes along.

Not for everyone...

[SPF604]

Ron,

Thanks for sharing the Pete Brock photo! Bob Olthoff gave me ride in the new Brock Coupe and it is a real beauty. The car is truely is gran touring car. No, not a Corvette or a Porsche, but a very refined automobile nontheless. At least in the Coupe, unlike most other modern sportscars, you will not meet yourself on the road constantly. I think a person has to appreciate the engineering and brute force the car is capable of in order to even use the Coupe on a regular basis. Later in the day, Bob drove my brother to the Salisbury airport in the coupe and everyone over there went nuts. And, there was a roadster sitting next to coup that drew very little attention. I think Pete did a great job with the car and with the testing done by Bob Olthoff, it turned out great. Bob did a tremendous amount of work testing and refining the car and deserves a lot credit as well.

[mr0077]

Ron, that's some very good reading...gives a new respect for the Daytona Coupe's performance, which was apparently better than the MkI GT-40's! And, consider that the Brock Coupe is more civilized and a better performer in all respects...the Brock Coupe is an outstanding car.

[Wahoo]

Now a new question;
new GT or the coupe? I think the new coupe would show much, much better if it were blue and those wheels were black instead
of white. The color already looks 'pinkish' for oxidation in some gallery shots of the coupe in my opinion. While I understand the rarity, history/heritage and the performance of the coupe vs. the old GT 40, my question to you is given that you had to choose between the two, new GT or the coupe, which would you choose?I think that I would choose the GT for my purposes although I would try and swap the wheels for a more authentic look...I saw a right hand drive Mk II (I believe) last year at B-Jackson--> awe inspiring. Given, the coupe was and is a race car first and not produced for any real street racing, the interior, even the new one, does not do much for me in terms of design.

[Randall Thomas]

That don't look like the Pete Brock I know? lol. Must be an optical illusion.

Are those "vents" in the rear of that vintage coupe? I never noticed those before.

Thanks for the photo and the article. VERY interesting reading.

/Randall

[cobrakalis]

Shelby pretty much won the 1965 World Championship with the Daytona Coupe. Shelby thought the Cobra had the aerodynamics of a " shoebox. "The Cobra would hit a aerodynamic brick wall at around 150-160mph. I know Dick Smith was clocked at Daytona at 198mph. Correct me if I'm wrong, especially at courses like LeMans. The shape of the Daytona Coupe looks a little like one of its rivals, a Ferrari 250 GTO. I believe the Daytona Coupe had success at Daytona, 12 Hours of Sebring , Bridgehampton, the Tourist Trophy, Reims and a 1964 win a Lemans in the GT class, driven by Dan Gurney and Bob Bondurant. I agree the Cobra is a better looking car than the Daytona Coupe, but the Daytona Coupe was a more aerodynamicaly advanced car, that could push 200mph on the Lemans Mulsanne straight, which the Cobra had difficulty doing. Than of course came the GT-40.


Gary

[G.R.]

I think the Daytona coupes may very well have given Shelby a few more years of Championships if Ford had not turned over the GT-40 program to him--
I maybe wrong here but if both of the cars were running it would've really given Ford/Shelby an almost Ferrari like competetion mystique.

[Cal Metal]

Thanks, Ron, for putting that up. I think people have a tendency to want to contrast the Daytona with the Ford GT and that really is not a fair comparison. The Daytona was an incredible car, given the very limited R & D and $$$ that were used to construct it. This was a "shoestring" budget project when compared to the GT program, where Ford spent millions of dollars in trying to perfect the GT. Remington was working with Eric Broadley as early as '63 on that project and it didn't bear fruit until '66.

The Daytona, on the otherhand, was done in-house with virtually no input from Ford (probably to the better) and the panels were either hammered out at Cal Metal Shaping or by Grand Sport in Italy (a deal arranged for Shelby by De Tomaso) and sat on an original roadster chassis with an extra brace. The contrast between the two cars couldn't be more different from a technological standpoint, and yet, the Daytona gave the U.S. the only Manufacturers trophy in its history

[snakeeyes]

All good points. It's nice to see opposing viewpoints on this forum without it degenerating into name-calling (yet... ).

Randall, the Coupe was originally designed with those vents in the "Kamm" tail (named for Dr. Wunibald Kamm, who came up with the theory that a truncated rear end, with a slightly concave cross-section, would induce turbulence that would aid in rear traction). The were connected to the plexiglass scoops in the rear 3/4 windows and were designed to aid in brake cooling. The only problem was, in early testing it was discovered that the rear tires acted like centrifugal pumps, actually sucking air through the crescent-shaped cutouts in the rear and forcing it through the rear 3/4 windows. Adding plexiglass "vanes" to the A-pillars helped solved the reverse airflow problem but the crescent-shaped cutouts must have been deemed unnecessary anyhow, as they were typically covered over.

I am with you guys on the wheel size. To my eye, looking over the car at Monterey, it was the main "problem" with the car. I asked Pete Brock about it but he was quick to explain that he needed wheels that size to accomodate the huge brakes installed on the car. Personally, I would be willing to sacrifice a bit of braking performance for a set of 15" Trigo or PS FIA wheels, and I would want some offset to the rears like the original cars had. Aside from the overall "hugeness" of the wheels on the SPF, the rear wheels have no offset, which I really think the car needs. Yada yada yada, this is all irrelevant, as I would have to take out a second mortgage to afford one, anyhow...

[SPF604]

Snakeeyes, I think the new 'Brock Coupe' looks really good in the Roush 18" five spoke wheels. There's a photo of the first car at the Olthoff's in my gallery. I agree, it's good that a post can be visited by so many, yet offer differing views and remain civil!

By the way, your JCF is one fine car! I've admired that car ever since it was in Kit Car magazine. I even emailed Walt to enquire about the car. I thought about buying it from him myself.

[xlr8or]

I really liked the car I saw at Coronado in October. Very well done. Didn't have any wheels on that one it was bolted to a rollaround dolly.

One of the best parts was the fact that I fit in it. I am only 6'0" and 230 lbs and didn't fit in the CAV GT40 worth a damn and the size 12EEE shoes were also a problem.

[Excaliber]

I saw an interesting "foot note" on history in this months "Hot Rod" magazine. Yeah, I know I'm an old fart but I still read that one,

1965 was the first year in NASCAR history the racers started to think seriously about aerodynamics. Narrow bumpers, door or window trim removed, etc. 1966 was the first year NASCAR officials came out with a body template to get a handle on things.

Peter Brock was SO far ahead of his time it just blows me away!

Ernie

[TerrysSPF]

SPF604: Those are the rims that they have on their Blue / White Coupe at Dynamic in Ohio. It really sets the car off nicely. I wish I could figure out a way to transfer the pictures I have to this site. I just need to bite the bullet and get a digital camera. :-)

[Turbo II]

Ron, thanks for posting the link. The coupe is a topic I love! Guess I'm one of those "eclectics" Cobra's are gorgeous but the coupes are my personal favorite. Sadly I may never one either

Haven't updated my "coupe" site in a long while, but for those that haven't seen it here it is: http://www3.telus.net/carstairs-crui...40/daytona.htm

Purists, please don't look at my "Project G.T. 140" site

Cheers,

Francis