anyone using 1" narrower control arms on Mustang II type suspension

B L & sons · #1 (**permalink**) 12-03-2003, 11:09 AM

I need to narrow my front suspension 2" to get the wheels inside the fenders.I have been thinking of ordering the narrower control arms that speedway motors sales and thought I would ask if others here have them on their cobra's and how thay like them.
My wheels or 15x7 Team III.
I have the grenada rotors with the montecarlo calipers.
coilover shocks.If any of this info makes a deference.

thank for any advice
Bill

misfit41 · #2 (**permalink**) 12-03-2003, 06:04 PM

I have the inch narrow arms but have not yet installed them,,I thought the front track was too wide anyway,and I wanated to run trigos,so over all I maay gain 7/8 inch or so per side,,since the trigos add 3/8
I bought mine bare from Shell Valley and had them powder coated,,Tk

cobrashoch · #3 (**permalink**) 12-03-2003, 06:58 PM

Changing to smaller arms will change the angle of the arms geometry when you hit a bump. The racks output arms will have to be moved out to match that angle when you hit a bump otherwise you will be putting bump steer into the works. With just one inch difference it may not effect it that much, but if your racks output arms are marginal, as I found most modified mustangII fronts to be, then you may be heading into trouble. At the very least you will want to limit the travel of the arms some, because in a very hard bump or hard turn the angle of those arms will get wild. The result would be a tire that corners a bit more on the edge in hard corners. Better to narrow the the whole front end and put the right rack in it, but of course that's much easier said than done. Without looking over your setup a bunch I'd be a bit skeptical about such changes. You may get a bigger tire on your car that way, but you might be creating a situation where your car couldn't use it. Indeed, increased tire wear may also be a result.
cobrashock

B L & sons · #4 (**permalink**) 12-04-2003, 06:41 AM

I will try to take some pictures this weekend with the body on,remove the body and take more.
Maybe it well help in finding a way to tuck the wheels in the fenders.
I have the flaming river manual rack.I believe there is enough thread on the racks output arms that I could remove a inch and still be safe.
If not the nerrower control arms are there alturnates?
Your help and advice is appreciated

Bill

B L & sons · #5 (**permalink**) 12-05-2003, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cobrashoch

Changing to smaller arms will change the angle of the arms geometry when you hit a bump. The racks output arms will have to be moved out to match that angle when you hit a bump otherwise you will be putting bump steer into the works. With just one inch difference it may not effect it that much, but if your racks output arms are marginal, as I found most modified mustangII fronts to be, then you may be heading into trouble. At the very least you will want to limit the travel of the arms some, because in a very hard bump or hard turn the angle of those arms will get wild. The result would be a tire that corners a bit more on the edge in hard corners. Better to narrow the the whole front end and put the right rack in it, but of course that's much easier said than done. Without looking over your setup a bunch I'd be a bit skeptical about such changes. You may get a bigger tire on your car that way, but you might be creating a situation where your car couldn't use it. Indeed, increased tire wear may also be a result.
cobrashock

Ron thanks for the warning, but I may not have giving enought information in my 1 st post.When I was thinking of using the narrowed control arms I meant both upper and lower control arms that are narrowed 1" or would that not make any differents?or is that what you are saying when you say better to narrow the whole front end?
If I go with the narrower control arms I would had thought that I would have to shorten the rack output arms.
My tires are 225x60x15 and the wheel have a 3" offset.
Thank you for your help on this you may be saving me money and a big problem later in my build.

Bill

cobrashoch · #6 (**permalink**) 12-06-2003, 11:05 PM

Bill - I assumed you would have be using 2 arms on each side. If not, you would have had a nightmare on your hands. Oh where to start. Changing to shorter arms will leave the new arms suspension free hanging at the same angles as your stock arms. What else that changes though is the arcs that the arms travel in and the arcs that the rack ends and hub travel in. From a hot rodders standpoint with stock stuff, what you ideally want is the racks output arms to run parallel to the lower arm and follow that arm up and down in parallel as it travels. If it don't you will get bump steer into it. A little angle here is normal I've seen though the years, and so is a little bump steer. This is usially easly set up right when you narrow the middle of a stock mustang2 setup by changing the rack and/or moving the racks mounting points up or down. When you use shorter arms you are changing the stock geometry travel arcs into a area were you best should know what you are doing. It can be done, and has been done a bunch, but there are tradeoffs to be made. And again carefull measurements have to be made to do it right. Yes, it's generally better to narrow a Mustang2 setup than to change to shorter arms. The more suspension travel you have on rough streets the better. You can allways limit stock suspension travel using several ways, to help cornering performance. But because the smaller arms travel in smaller arcs, you will also need to limit the susp. travel quicker than the stock arms because the travel arcs errors get wilder, faster on the smaller arms. That said there is some giveway built into a mustang2 setups and thats why it's such a popular choice with hot rodders, and those shorter arms could work IF, IF , IF,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
cobrashock

mr bruce · #7 (**permalink**) 12-07-2003, 05:02 AM

Go to www.heidts.com they have a good explaination of what happens when you run shorter control arms. Better way to go is narrow the cross member and rack(check Fatman Fabrication for recomendation on that)or you can get hubs that don't move the wheel "out" so much,(ECI, Coleman,etc) or switch wheels.

CHRIS POTTER · #8 (**permalink**) 12-07-2003, 07:16 AM

Bill, check with Master Power Brakes in Mooresville, NC. They offer hubs that will narrow your front track, and not affect your suspension geometry. I have them on my 34 Ford, and they allow a standard alignment, and the car tracks very straight. Good luck, abd keep us updated on your progress.

B L & sons · #9 (**permalink**) 12-09-2003, 06:54 AM

Once again club cobra comes to my rescue,saved me money and most likely one hell of a headache.
Thank you for the advice I do appreciate it.
Bill

golfnutjetsfan · #10 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 09:33 AM

From having done thousands of alignments I can tell you that the biggest problem you are going to have with shorter control arms is you will have to thread the outer tie rod end onto the inner tie rod end of the rack one inch farther to maintain the toe setting. You should not have a problem with bump steer because you are not altering the pivot point (the frame) and therefore the arcs of the rack end and control arms will remain the same. If you do a search on bumpsteer you will find an excellent explanation of, I blieve its here or on ERA's website. Frank