Turnkey Vs Kits >>why?

[Rickyd]

As my profile indicates, I am a new owner of a Superformance Cobra turnkey chassis with an engine soon to be built and installed by Performance Engineering. I am also very new to the replica car scene.

I am very curious to know why people choose to build a cobra from a kit instead of purchasing a turnkey chassis.

Outside of a father-son project are there other compelling reasons?

I have heard of experiences where people spend a tremendous amount of time and energy on their cobra kits and end up spending more money than intended. Also, I hear some of the completed kits can end up delivering an inferior product compared to a Superformance turnkey chassis. I use Superformance as the gold standard because I believe this product to be the most cost effective in terms of resale, quality and authenticity among all of the turnkey chassis manufactures. Please keep in mind, this is based on my personal research and findings. I am not trying to be arrogant etc...just sharing my findings.

Additionally, isn't a warranty, factory built reliability, superior fit and finish and a strong manufacture/dealer network important?

Do you agree it might be risky to buy a kit from a small operation? I think the landscape has changed in the last 12 months from what I have been reading. It seems some kit manufactures have gone in and out of business. I would think that would hurt one's resale value considerably.

Do kit builders conduct a spreadsheet analysis factoring in all associated cost including resale? Or is the decision making process driven by emotion or perceived - actual cost savings?

Thanks for your feedback.

[computerworks]

....you missed the fun.

[bobl]

You should have come to Kansas City.....

[mikiec]

Ron is right.

There is something to be said about building your own car. Making it uniquely your own. Lots of personal satisfaction. I built my car just over 3 years ago and still marvel at my accomplishment.

Mike

[CRZN427]

Rickyd,

I am in the process of building my second Cobra replica. I have read of some who have built four or five.

Some of us do it because we enjoy the creativity of doing the job the way we want it to be done. Some things are very subtle, to say the least, but it is our heart and soul invensted in the final product.

I have the recources to go the route that you went, but I would have missed all the enjoyment of the build.

I can tell you from first hand experience that it is a "high" to say "Thank you for the complements on my car and yes I built it myself." My old car (an LAE) brought home thirty trophies including best of class and best of show at both rod and custom and handcrafted shows.

I am not immediately concerned about the resale value of my FFR. I am building it for pleasure and I will get lots of that.

I did sell my LAE, after driving it for seven years and 40k miles, and came very close to what I had spent building it. That amount will more than cover the costs I am experiencing to be able to get my new FFR up and running. I'll have enough, after I go through the debugging process, to put on several upgrades. I will have to drive it for a few miles to see what, if any, upgrades I want.

Any immediate gratification I need will come from our new Boxter which will be here around Feb. 11.

[wilf leek]

Not everyone has either the skills/knowledge or the time to build a car up from pieces, hence the popularity of turnkey cars.

Not everyone can afford to effectively pay someone else to build their car for them, so they automatically would build their own, because it can be much cheaper.

Many folks, who maybe could afford to buy a turnkey, still get quite a kick from building their own cars. There is a lot to say for being able to tell everyone that "I did it".

I built my own, 3 years on the road now without a problem (so I guess I did it reasonably right). Starting to get strange longings for my cold garage floor. I guess another build is starting to sneak up on me.

[mrmustang]

Rick,

The way I see it there are two sets of people, those who can build their own car and want to do it, and those that cannot build their own car, or do not want to do it themselves. To each his own I always say. As for fit and finish, I have personally seen (owned and judged at shows) several "kit built" Cobras where the fit and finish has exceeded that of what Superformance has currently out on the market. Guess it's all in the details, and knowing what your looking at in the long run. I do hope you enjoy your car, it's going to be one hell of a ride from the sounds of your build up. Finally, in regards to resale, I do not hold the Superformance cars as high as you do, I think your missing the actual market right now and the pricing hit that a lot of the higher end "Turn Key Minus" cars such as yours are currently experiencing. With the new CSX4000 SA fiberglass series at $39,000-$42,000, coupled with the new Kirkham $39,995 offering, I'm seeing quite a few of the $55,000-$65,000 asking prices on the Superformance cars all of a sudden dropping to the $38,000-$45,000 range, and selling in that range and not higher at this time. You want a sound investment in a Cobra, the previously mentioned two cars above are the sure bet (if there ever is one in regards to a Cobra replica/continuation car).......Again, you have pride in your new toy, and your decision on purchasing it, nothing wrong with that. But to say it is a superior product to everything else out there does sound a bit arrogant, even though it may not have been your intentions.............Enjoy the ride, drive it all year round like it was meant to be. Perhaps we'll see you at the DVSF IV this year...............I look forward to it...............



Sincerely,

Bill S.

[grumpy]

Rickyd,
Sounds like the old tune,
My COBRA's better n yer COBRA,
My COBRA's better n yers.........
I ferget the rest!
grumpy

[BlueRooster]

I thought it sounded arrogant too. Rick, you shouldn't post "mine is better than yours" on this website, it makes other SCOF'ers look bad. If you had the time and knowledge to build your own Cobra, the SPF could be very undesirable.

I think the most compelling reason is satisfaction. Some guys want to do more than play with the remote all night.

[Rickyd]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It sounds like the decision to build a kit car is one of emotion and personal fulfillment. There seems to be less value placed on the money factor and more value placed on personally performing the task. Hence the popularity of Home Depot and Lowes!

[Doc]

Some of us are stupid, do not like to have free time, enjoy an angree wife and want to spend more $ than if we just bought it done. Besides that everyone wants their own thing from the car weather it is driving it right away or building it and then driving it or many of the reasons the other posters have listed. For me though when I was researching kits one night at the local cruise their were 5 kits in the parking lot a unique 2 FFR and one the guy made his own mold frame everything, and one SPF. My wife and I talked to the owners of the unique, FFR, and the do it yourselfer and discussed putting their cars together. The SPR was the best looking car of the cars teir that night. My wife asked me if I wanted to talk to the owner and my reply was what could I ask him. Did he put the engine in or pay someone to do that as well? Now I am not saying that is bad but is wasn't for me and it helped me rull out SPR for me.
Just my $.02 worth
Doc

[Art Burtt]

Just knowing I screwed every nut and bolt into the car was enough for me. Of course I had the time,retired, and the money.
Now that it's done I wish I had another one to do. I too seem to be drawn to the "home built" cars at shows. They always seem to be a little more finished looking than factory built. But as my mother always said ,whatever floats your boat!

[Rickyd]

Guys, for those who I rubbed the wrong way I apologize. I can see looking back how one could pull out a trace of arrogance. I'm not the most prolific communicator at times. Sorry''


I should have been more careful in my initial thread that stated "Superformance, in my opinion, is the most cost effective among turn key manufactures". I should have been more specific and stated fiberglass bodies and within my price range which was in the high $30's for a roller. Sorry for not adding that level of detail at the beginning.

Personally, I haven't seen the Shelby Fiberglass version made in South Africa $42,500. They were not available at the time and are a bit higher than my budget would allow. The Kirkham's Aluminum body is a piece of art (very nice!) but I think you still have additional components to add to the $40,000 price tag. Again, the target was fiberglass and I considered Kirkham financially out of my reach even with their price adjustment. Great product but above what I wanted to spend.

I hope this clears things up.

Regards,

[Bruce Edwards]

Rick,

As a builder of kits and the owner of a restoration shop I can tell you the reasons our customers bring cars to us to build or restore. They can not do it or do not have the time to do it. Also most of the turn key cars I have seen are all the same with very little in the way of change from factory options. The first car we built was and E-M that was to say the lest bare of options. E-M offered nothing at the time short of a one fits all kit.
We took that car and added powersteering, heat and fresh air, 4 speaker sound system, an extension from the dash to the tunnel for the radio, tilt wheel, a custom made 22 gal aluminum tank, changed the rad position to help cooling, made up a set of ducts to help force air into the rad and used the front brakes ducts for a fresh air ram system into the passenger area to help keep your feet cool, power antenna and windshield washer system.
Remember that at the time NO ONE that we could find even offered these options.
So to answer your question form my side of things it is the challenge to do something to a car that the designers said could not be done. With out people like myself and others that wish to build their own cars the car you are driving now would not be as nice as it is.
You have any idea how pissed off my father and I were when we went to pick up our second E-M car for a customer and they were incorporating most of our ideas on to their new car? Talk about nerve when the "Engineer" ask me how we solved our vent problem on our fuel tank as he walked me over to one that looked just like ours I almost lost me cool. What is it they so no honor among -----???
Off my rant sorry. Taking a car that you built to a show and winning over factory built is a real high and shows everyone that the individual can build something just as nice or nicer than they can buy. Everyone likes to add their own touch to their cars. Different wheels sound system and the like. Those are just some of the things done to brand new Ford's Chevy's and the like to make the car your own.
So in a nut shell I guess what I am doing my best to convey is that there is nothing in the world better than saying "I did myself" or even from an owners stand point from one of the cars we build "I designed it myself".


Bruce Edwards
Gemini Motorcars Inc.

[Rickyd]

Bruce.

TERRIFIC COMMENTS AND INSIGHTS.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

You provide an important role to help people safely fulfill their dreams and add a level of personalization as well.

By the way, I would be upset too if someone copied my good ideas. I have yet to have any but if I ever do..damn would that make me mad. Nothing like a back handed compliment.

Keep smiling and fighting!

[PSB]

Ditto what Bruce said. My Cobra has air conditioning, high back seats, a custom dash, and EFI. None of those things are available from Superformance. I also have the satisfaction that I did all the custom work myself.

BTW, if I were buying a turnkey minus, my first choice would be Backdraft, not Superformance. JMHO, but Superformance's car is a little nicer than Backdraft's, but it isn't $10K better.


Pete

[Bluesman]

The occasional breakdowns are easier to locate and repair because you will have a pretty intimate knowledge of your kit if you decide to put one together in your garage. If you are like me,
not having a lengthy background in automotive repair, then the challenge to produce a finished product brings a big boost to your confidence and self-esteem. However, I don't see anything wrong with someone purchasing a turnkey.
Your friends might be cautious when you offer to take them for a ride in your "garage built" kit-car. The stigma of the kit-car being a bunch of ill-fitted nuts and bolts still exists to some.
I remember one time when I was flying through some mountain curves with a friend from work and he suddenly started to panic and asked me to slow down. I guess it finally dawned on him that
the car was thrown together with a couple crescent wrenches in my garage!

[Hal Copple]

I studied the catalogues and magazine articles since the late '70's, although i only actually saw several replicas up close in all those years. Once, many years ago, read in one that the Contemporary was a bit more "real" than the ERA that was also tested, so i automatically (and foolisly) said someday i would get a Contemporary. How naive i was.

The replicas in the magazines and brochures were always so handsome, so finished, i assumed i could do as well. Then went to a car show, and saw a body sitting out for sale, not even the doors were cut out, which was a reality check for me. I then say one of the first SPF's in the country and decided if somehow i was ever able to get a replica, it would be an SPF, still had never actually seen an ERA/Contemporary/Shell/Unique, or any of the other brands.

Sort of like meeting your wife on a first date, and eventually marrying her, and never having any regrets i suppose.

But after i got my Turnkey, which i literally drove away, i began a relentless quest to modify and make mine unique, which continues four years later. Putting in a different Canton fuel filter next week. Aeroquip fuel lines, etc. I have learned that when it comes to my cars, i am so perfection-oriented, so compulsive, so meticulous, that I would never have been able to build my own, as every tiny thing i do to my car takes forever to due to my compulsation to be perfect. I would have had to build the car for decades. I did not realize it back then, though. Some years ago, when i was putting an electronic boost controller and fuel computer in my Turbo Eclipse, and spoke with one of the parts guys, he told me "Hal, nobody goes to as much effort and work as you do, they just wire them up and go." Not me.

So i could never have completed a "kit" myself. It would never have been actually complpeted, and i probably would have lost interest or something.

My hats off to those who do, for sure. There is something for everybody in this replica business.

[Steve Riley]

Rick,

You miss the whole point of why people who build a kit instead of buying a completed car do so. I wanted to make my car. When I'm done and somebody asks me about my car I can tell them that I built this car, every nut, bolt and bit of it. I didn't want a finished product!
And cost analysis and investment value? This is my hobby and pride and joy, not an investment. You need a stock broker for that, not a replica manufacturer.
True, it is taking an incredible amount of work and time, but this is what I want to do and enjoy, it isn't a task I'm suffering through.
I do hope you enjoy your SPF Cobra, I've been in one at the R+G, and it was fabulous!
Steve Riley

[foothills gary]

RickyD,Bluesman really nailed one very important aspect of building your own,and that is troubleshooting!Building a car is one step forward,and two(or three!) back.When you are finished you will know the car more intimately than your wife,and hence no doubt the hostility.My last car I had built all the way,including the wiring.One day,about dusk I stopped to fill up before heading home,and the car wouldn't start-not even a click.It is amazing how imprinted those wiring diagrams are in your brain by the time you are roadworthy.It took less that 5 minutes to locate a breaker that had come slighly loose and lost it's ground.I tightened it with my fingers enough to get started,and drove home to do it properly.With all the bottles of Locktite in that car's connections,I had obviously missed one!I plan on building another,but this time with my daughter, as an adult.The ERA will probably be turnkey except for the interior,which I really enjoy doing myself.Many variations to meet the changes in our lives.What fun!

Gary