Unique's NASCAR Cobra w/ 351C-4V

[TheSaint71]

Hey guys I need your brains again!! On Uniques site there is an old article on a "NASCAR" CObra I always like that article!

http://www.uniquemotorcars.com/ (this is a direct link, but on some sites it wont go directly do click on the 427 then scroll down and click on the "NASCAR" Cobra article)

Anyway, does anyone have any idea how much it would cost for a engine like this!? Its a 351C-4V, cast-iron Ford SVO Windsor Block opened up to a 358 cid. Childs & Albert forged steel conecting rods, aluminum SVO 302C units sporting huge 2.125 inch titanium intake valves. Roush Racing/Ford SVO NASCAR aluminum intake manifold and a HOLLEY 830 (part number 294-4308-12) and heavy duty competition cams valve springs and some odd wierd aluminum roller rocker doohickes! Did i foget something I coppied out of the article!? lol

Anyway, I want to ask you guys, I've been trying for a couple weeks looking up things that would make this engine and well, lol I havn't exactly done so successfully! Also in my experince 351 engines were kinda "slower" at shorter ranges like that quarter compared to like a health 289 or 302, is it just me? Anyone have an idea what this special 351 would cost to duplicate I find the article pretty facinating...


THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND HELP! Ohh also I thought since its called a 351C that "C" is for cleveland but its stated to be a windsor!? Is it part windsor/cleveland?

[Edley Rondinone]

Probably a Windsor block with 351C-4V heads...with those HUGE valves, I would imagine high RPM horsepower #s only.....dont know about low-RPM torque, or what the usable power band would look like; doesnt appear to be a very street-friendly engine. I may be wrong.

[clayfoushee]

Why don't you contact the Weavers at Unique. They would probably direct you to Ernie Elliott (Bill's Bro.) who built the engine.

BTW, rumor has it that Bill Elliott has a Unique stored away with one of these engines. The same rumor says he won't drive it because it scares the s*** out of him. I have no clue whether there is any truth to that or whether it's just another urban myth.

[aumoore]

A cobra with a healthy 302 can scare the crap out of most people so imagine a 700plus HP NASCAR motor in on of these 2400# cars.

[TheSaint71]

NO WAY! LOL Scares the hell out of him? Thats hillarious.... great Idea though I'll contact those weaver guys and ask! Thanks for the replies guys...

[blykins]

This is just a basic Winston Cup motor....Windsor block, 9.200" deck height, Yates heads (basically Cleveland design heads), 2.125" I, 1.65" E, essentially a Super Victor intake manifold, Holley carb, and a high lift, long duration mechanical solid lifter cam.

What kills it is the compression....

This is a combo that you could easily duplicate....with a 392 or 408 ci stroker....Victor Jr. intake and a set of TFS Twisted Wedge heads....MM&FF magazine just tested one that made 540hp....not too shabby...

[TheSaint71]

Nice guys thanks a ton! I just sent a e-mail to the weavers!

-Blykins
Winston Cup motor? Nicee... let me ask you, I've bene told many times that people if they ant can actually buy NASCAR engines for their cobras, ones that were tested but neve rraced so basically new... where in the heck do people find these to buy them!? If anyone knows please tell me I want to take a look....

So tell me why would lower compression kill it? I like the lower compression for non NASA space quality gas!! lol I appreciate your time my friend thanks alot.. I don't know alot about engine parts yet.. lol so many numbers and ratio's

[Rick Parker]

Try www.musclemotorsports.com

Give it a try.

Rick

[Excaliber]

This engine "formula" is similar to the old Boss 302, which ran the Clevland heads in competition. THAT motor combination was quickly retired because in order to take advantage of the HUGE intake they would have to run 7000 rpm and higher on the road course. They blew a lot of engines.

...of course, that was then and this in now. NASCAR engines DO run 8000 rpm or higher and are NOT subject to extreme rpm ranges typically found on a road course. Plus, being more cubes perhaps the intake action is improved over the 302 of yester year.

Street use? I don't think so. I suspect this engine is strictly a high rpm application with a VERY limited life span.

Reminds me of WHY the AFR heads are about the best around! They are NOT the biggest valves, they DON'T flow the "most" air. But the DO make more consistent horse power through a broad rpm range. And in the end, make as much or more horse power than all but the most "radical" heads.

Ernie

[Cracker]

No myth! Bill Elliot sat in front of me a few years ago on a flight to Denver and I asked whether he had ever driven a BBB 460 variant car and his response was "I'm more of a small block guy". I told him I was considering putting the 460 in a Cobra replica and that is when he mentioned "he has one with a cup motor in it and he can't get out of 2nd gear because it's just too scary!" Direct from Bill Elliot! Have a great day. I've wondered when I was going to be able to use that encounter as an example.

On a similar note, one of our local Atlanta members, RedUnique, has a Winston motor in his built by none other than Ernie Elliott and having driven in the car can tell you there is plenty of torque for a little cobra. How about making traction a joke all the way through 3rd without trying! Best wishes!

Here is his bio line below:
redUnique
Club Cobra Member
Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Marietta, GA, USA,
Posts: 42
Cobra Make & Engine: Unique 427 - Laser Red / white stripes. 351w stroked to 383, 673hp at 7100rpms

[clayfoushee]

Tony,

Thanks for the confirmation. I had heard something similar from someone else. The Bill Elliott story is taking on some credibility now. I knew that Ernie Elliott had built several NASCAR-based motors that found their way into Cobra replicas. It's also interesting, I think, that most people forget that the Winston/Nextel Cup motor is a small block.

[poorboy]

Ernie Elliott has sold all of his NASCAR Ford parts. Said no money in just building 1 engine here and there. He just builds Dodge engines now.

Poorboy

[Gary Morris]

Greg Sellards "Kingair" had one of the Uniques with the Ernie Elliot small block in it and the story was that just the motor was in the 50K range. Made it very difficult to sell the car but finally he did make a deal on it. Funny story...after the sell the new owner called to ask about changing the plugs. Greg had not done it since the car ran fine as it was. After some phone calls to I think it was Bosch that the new owner called to inquire about plugs he was asked....where did you get those plugs? Seems they were exclusive to Nascar and they had to get permission to sell them to him and from what I remember they were not cheap!!

Gary

[RallySnake]

Saint,

The NASCAR engine sounds like a good idea at first, all those expensive parts making all that horspower. And you can simulate exactly the same thing in a much cheaper engine with a great big solid lifter camshaft. My first cam had outragious specs and would make amazing horsepower as the revs got up to 5,000 rpm or better. I clocked a zero to 60 speed of 3.9.

However, in real life, taking the wife to lunch was uncomfortable with the low speed engine surges. Pulling away from a stop sign gracefully was impossible, it would stall sometimes if you didn't rev the engine and slip the clutch enough. The engine had no power at all below 4,000 rpm so you couldn't use fifth gear until you were up to 85 mph. I burned up a lot of gas crusing in fourth gear.

When I got tired of adjusting the lifters every few months I put a milder hydralic cam in it. This was better, but I still couldn't use 5th gear below 75 and the idle was still very ragged.

The next stage was Rhodes lifters. Now, that's the ticket! I got the idle down to 900 rpm. The engine will pull in 5th gear from 60 mph. I could achieve better than 20 mpg crusing on the freeway. I could run a constant speed without surging and whipping my Navigators head back and forth. And when we're late for a checkpoint, the revs go up and the power comes on. It's not the radical "he!!'s breaking loose" kind of power, but enough to fly by anything else on the road.

So, sure spend $20K on a radical engine. Then, when you get tired of it's impracticallity, let it sit in the garage and rust away like too many Cobras do.

Hal wrote a great article about this very subject a while back. You can read it here: how much HP really is necessary.....

Paul

[Cal Metal]

The Unique Cobra in question--with the Ernie Elliot engine--was around $40K when Ernie was building them five or six years ago. The motor in question is a beautiful motor and has a sound that is unlike anything you will ever hear. I believe that the Weavers have had that particular engined refreshed one or two times. The horsepower rating was around 620 h.p. and ran on pump gas.

[RallySnake]

There was another article written by Richard Hudgins that puts thing in better perspective: Cobra Safety and HP

Cal, I think I know what you mean. You hear the individual pops of each of the high compression cylinders firing. It's a beautiful sound, but, I would get tired of buying octane booster real quick.

Paul

[Cal Metal]

Paul:

I think Allen Weaver once told me that the Elliot motor will run on 94 octane.

[Cracker]

Reduniqes Ernie E. motor is detuned to 12.5:1 and has to run this cancer causing explosive lead type additive. On the bright side it is only about $7 bucks per tank and his engine runs great.

[RallySnake]

Well guys,

I don't know about Wisconson or Atlanta, but yesterday I filled up my 22 gallon tank with their best 91 octane at a local Union 76 station. It was $2.01 for each one. So, $40 is pushing it far enough.

Paul

[TheSaint71]

LOL HOLY COW GUYS! I had no idea this motor was such a killer omg lol!! Great replies!!

The Weavers sent me an email.... he mentioed there is a Professional wrestler that got one of the cars (wow a wrestler with a Unique) with like a $40,000 motor (excluding carb) like that and when he shifts into 3rd gear at 130mph he spins his tires!!!! (Am I allowed to give the wrestlers name?)

The Weavers commented he recently spoke to the Elliot guy last week, and said Bill doesnt know exactly how fast the car is and probably never wilL!! LOL Too strong for him I think... (Engine was stroked to 454 cubic inches in the wrestlers car)

THANKS FOR THE INFO! The weavers are still the ONLY kit car guys to ever respond to me by e-maiL! lol A&C actually sent me something by snail mail today so thats good to! Anyway thanks to you guys and the Weavers!