Viper Engines For Cobra's, Yes Or No!!!

[Jim Holden]

There is an ERA out there somewhere with a Ferrari Daytona V12 in it.

Jim

[Chaplin]

Originally Posted by Jim Holden

There is an ERA out there somewhere with a Ferrari Daytona V12 in it.

Jim

Really? I would love to hear what that thing sounds like. Must be strange to hear the sound of that V-12 when you'd expect an FE.

[Jim Holden]

Chap:

The installation was done approx. 20 years or so ago. The only visual external tip off was where the exhaust exited to the side pipes; instead of four into one, there was six into one...

There are some pictures up at the shop of the car... somewhere. Bob probably has it scanned in somewhere.

Jim

[greg schroeder]

I know a couple guys with twin turbo Vipers and a handful with modified Viper N/A engines. I could see having some fun with 1000+ wheel HP twin turbo Viper engine in a Cobra, but then again if I was going to spend the money I think I'd rather have a V8 small block Ford with turbos.

[barabar]

I Would Love To Know What Kind Of Tires He Used To Get That V-10 Cobra To Hook Up Like That To Twist That Pinion ??

[Commander]

Don't know why you'd want to put a Viper engine into a Cobra, why not just buy a Viper? But as has been noted, it's your car, your dream, your vision.

Someone else has an even more bastardized vision, putting a Viper intake on an FE:



At least you wouldn't have to worry about mounts and headers and such, and it would definitely be unique (even more unique than a Viper engine in a Cobra which from the sounds of things has been done to death )

[CobraDan]

Other engine options

[Double Venom]

Sound:
I always said a Viper sounded like a John Deere tractor on Steroids! That is until the engine was exhausted through true custom headers and then through straight through bullitt built (by me) side pipes!.
DVII was built strictly for SCCA and racing. Different exhaust and it did sound wimpy-but

West Coast Cobra? Good luck- DV II was built, raced and driven by a gentleman (Nick) that was just a fraction over 6'4, 130 (+/-). The car was built with full sized Recaro high back racing seats and Nick had to move the seat forward to reach the custom Tilton pedal set-up.
My suggestion is to go with a CR cobra, it IS the only one on the market (at least at the time) the Viper V10 AND the T-56- 6-spd and bellhousing will fit in to and then only with a slight customization of the inner frame rails.

Ford TRUCK V-10?, Why not the Dodge V-10? Because neither of them have even the remotest torque and speed of the Viper V-10. And the Viper V10 is hundreds of pounds lighter. In fact the Viper V-10 vs the Ford 460 with all attached hardward is HUNDREDS of pounds heavier than the Viper V10.

To answer the next questions; all testing was done at the Honda of Marysville Ohio test tack and National Trail Dragstrip in Columbus, Ohio. Much of the minor mods were done that were suggested by "Roger" of the Honda track, speed "open" at the limit of our speed limit of 157 mph-same as Run N Gun on the back straight from turn 4 down the front straight into the chicane. (NOT even close to a WOT speed!
100' Official Skid Pad- Roger-Honda of Marysville OVER 1.3 an amazing number, especially when we started out with virgin suspension wimpy at .79!

Drag numbers with a pure stock Viper V-10, EXCEPT exhaust, (my stock exhaust was used) with street M&H tires; 11:00 flat in the 1/4 mile @ 128 to 133-(Track officials kindley warned me that if we broke 11's my 4-point bar would be considered invalid, we would have to mount a parachute, etc. etc... But, then they would allow me to run the wheelie bars!

Randy Hunter: I talked to Randy about his V-10 exsclusively, turns out he insists he didn't build it and had nothing to do with it! The fellas that did were "warned" about calling it a "Double Venom" years ago at one of the original Flings. As far as I know they have never sold it and may still be the same one they have been trying to sell ???

Run N Gun, first time out set a new track record by over 2 full + seconds, took first in our class and in fact the times and speeds would have put us up with Gary Priorea (sp) first place winner Class A (?) unlimited!
In fact the people couldn't believe the times and the speed!
"THEY" protested to the judges of the track that we were running illegal tires! "They" came up to me, impounded the car figuratively speaking until the tires would be checked out! I believe it was "Wayne Maybury" (?) who inspected the tires and started to laugh hysterically! Tires: Cooper 255x60x16's M&S !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you know what that means? "M&S" means mud and snow tires from the factory! And we won our class and set track records- Need I say more about Cooper Tires?

Gentlemen, by ALL means build your Cobra your way but please don't call it a "DV" or Double Venom" cobra. The Cobra people/famly named this car and if it isn't obvious I am very proud of what we (IT) has done.

Ed/DV Combs

PS: Ernie, If I was still active I'd have to hire you! : That 9" rear end pinion your showing came out of the car as shown at National Trails raceway right in front of the officials and "JEGS" himself while we were racing in the "Chrysler Classic Nationals"-racing Vipers! They said they had seen rear ends destroyed many times before but never had been housing twisted in half! I'm still using the "ring & pinion" to this day-3:55's if your'e interested.

[Double Venom]

The SS shown became later on became a good friend. He and My son were talking years later and "he" was telling my son about the time a Cobra pulled the wheels next to him and totally embarrassed him self. (oops, didn't mean to do that!)

[CobraDan]

I met the owner of the Hunter Viper V10 Cobra at the Turkey Rod Run a few years back at Randy Hunters rented space at the show, I never got to talk with Randy as he was not present at the time but the owner said Randy had put the engine into the Cobra. At the Turkey Rod Run the car was not completely done at the time, but I also got to talk again with the owner at DVSFIV where the car was listed for sale. This man had worked for Chrysler and some how had a source of getting Viper engines and wanted to build and sell Viper engine equipped cobras, but like Ed said I don’t think they sold very well starting at over $50,000, and I don’t think any more were built except that first one.

[Excaliber]

I fully concur richsd, there are only a few engines that are acceptable for a GREAT replica, the original ones!

A few others are so 'over the top' you just gotta smile! A Hemi goes well in just about any application, for instance. A VW? Nah, I couldn't go that way!

I saw a Rat Rod the other day with a late 50's Olds engine. A breath of fresh air compared to the ever present GM small block.

[richsd]

Yep, all depends on the purpose of the build and usually that purpose varies with each individual. The trick on resale is finding that person that has the same profile in mind as you had during the build.

A Hemi in a VW, now that would be fun.

[Michael4yah]

Thanks for all your comments.

I guess we can place Cobra builders into 3 categories. 1) Those who value originality above all, 2) Those who dont have the finances to build an adequate FE or 289 powered Replica, 3) And those of us that just cant leave well enough alone!!
All of those who fall into the 3rd category like myself shouldnt be made to feel guilty. We are spurred on by a design that wasnt perfect to start with. No disrespect intended. The Cobra stands tall because of the PEOPLE that built it. And it is Very Scary Fast even in stock form. We just feel a need to "Help it along" from time to time. The originals didnt have electric pull fans so they overheated easily. Ive talked to original owners of those Cars and to them overheating was a real pain in the A$$. Answer ? All of us use electric pull fans and nobody cries "It isnt original"!! ...Why ? Because we needed it. Now we look at the pricing of some of these original design parts and what do we see? 427 FE engines that sell for 15-20 thousand when newer non original design crate engines can be had for 1/2 that. How about $5000.00 for a Salisbury Rear end?? Basicly a 50 year old design put into a 500.00 alum housing? There are better rear ends out there at 1/2 the price. Transmissions too! Most Toploader Cobras go down the highway taching 2500 to 3000 rpm litterally wearing out their high priced FE engines way before their time. Answer ? A non Toploader 5 or 6 spd trans. Not original but hey Its an improvement isnt it. I guess my last word on this is.... America was made strong by its people. A People who tinkered with things and made them go faster, sometimes safer but nearly always "Better". I hope that even though we live in this stupid nonsensical age of Political Correctness etc, we all will leave lots of room for those who try to make things better, faster, or sometimes just more liveable.
Thanks for sharing guys.
Michael

[Douglas Rizzo]

..are usually weak in the crankshaft dept. Not only does the Viper V-10 sound kinda "funny" the Ford V10 doesn't have a great "note" to it either although not as buzzy.

In any event, generally the cranks are the weak areas in these motors.

If going for something that bulky why not use a 427 SOHC? They sound great!
-Doug

[BossCER]

technically still an FE I think. It should meet their stringent criteria.

[Excaliber]

Michael4yah, I'll take door number 1, but can only afford door number 2! Door number 3 is what keeps Club Cobra from getting boring.

[Michael4yah]

Hey Ernie, How much was Double Venom offered to you for?

[Excaliber]

Well I wouldn't feel comfortable saying how much, I think thats DV's business, but it's an offer I seriously considered...

[Double Venom]

Michael4yah,
We actually (due to many outside sources) raffeled off the original DV for my last Fling. Chuck Siefke from Springfield was the winner. Chuck has been racing it ever since and has told me he refuses to even let his Corvette brethern drive it because it is so scary fast After three years he has offered it to me for around 50K which if I had the cash I would jump on it!

Fella, if you decide to do it-DO IT! Done right, right suspension etc. the things are amazing. Absolutely feel free to call if you want, I will discuss the downsides with you at your lenght. I.e; wiring, (major item), especially now since Viper does not sell the "conversion" kit anymore. (They didn't do it when I did it either!) Headers absolutely have to be hand/custom built, frame rails even on a CR II car have to be modified for that huge bellhousing BUT the engine will fit in the hole marvelously! At your service Sir-please do not hesitate.
Ed/DV Combs

[Michael4yah]

Ed, thanks, your a real gentleman. I really appreciate your offer of help. Ive got a big decison to make this weekend. I have an opportunity to buy a complete driveline from a 06 Gen3 with only 1000 Miles on it. I already bought a Gen 3 Rear end that Im toying with thats good for 800hp but there's a good chance that I would end up using an IRS 9 inch. . My kit is an Alum Hi Tech (Phoenix) that I bought , just frame and body. Part of me thinks it should go original cause the Hi techs were so close to being a exact copy and Im not wild about cutting the crossmembers of this frame. I already own a T56 That was made special for an FE, but even with an FE engine Id have to cut that crossmember and add one further back for the trans mounts. Then the other part of me wants to do something really different with it. I've already bought many FE parts, all except the block and rotating assembly. I was going to go with a Pond Alum block and Scat stroker. But Its like they say, "Just when I thought I was out...... They dragged me back in" So here I am. Now that Ive got you on the line Id like to ask a couple questions if you dont mind.

1) One the motor location. Did you use the Stock Viper block mount location? How close did it come to where the FE mounts would have been? What were your calculations like on set back etc?
2) On the wiring. Ive got a friend who owns his own shop and suggested going with a FAST controller. I know very little about wiring these modern motors but thankfully he does.
3) Did your engine location (setback) change on the subsequent DVs that you built?
4) What was the lengths of driveshafts did you end up with? Ive heard that when they arent long enough (ie have enough travel)they have a tendency to heat up the ujoints etc and sometimes fail. Did you have any problems with that or any driveline vibration problems?
5) DId you have to make any adjustments to the pinion angle?
6) What were the sizes of your primaries and collectors on your headers Ive seen some SS stepped headers that are supposed to add 50 horse and sound alot better. One thing about these speed merchants , they are not shy when pricing some of this stuff. 3500 for headers alone! Ive decided not to get too excited over the price of this stuff. When you decide to do a project like this you throw all that judgement stuff out the window and concentrate on doing whats best for the car.
7) What suspension did you end up with. Was there any problems getting it to work at all speeds? (ie. alignment gremlins, drifting at speed)?
8) What oil pan did you go with, Looks like Vipers are a rear sump, Ive talked to some Viper guys about getting a dry sump. THey only want 5K!

Ed Im really glad your willing to help. I know if I decide to do this Im gonna need all the help I can get. Thanks again.
Michael