Insurance Problems

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Pretty moronic assumption IMHO! So the person who their car has more respect and knowledge of what it can or cannot do than the person that laid out $50-70K or more to purchase one? Sorry, I'm not buying it! If anything the person who put theirs together instead of buying a professionally built one would be more of a possible liability since the insurer has no way of knowing the quality of the build and whether or not the car will stay together on the road. Besides, I'd expect the builder/owner to be the first one to go out and push the car to the max to see what his handywork was capable of.

Now your assuming something. Warren G.

[lucforce]

Originally Posted by Naumoff

Now your assuming something. Warren G.

Exactly

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Pretty moronic assumption IMHO! So the person who their car has more respect and knowledge of what it can or cannot do than the person that laid out $50-70K or more to purchase one? Sorry, I'm not buying it! If anything the person who put theirs together instead of buying a professionally built one would be more of a possible liability since the insurer has no way of knowing the quality of the build and whether or not the car will stay together on the road. Besides, I'd expect the builder/owner to be the first one to go out and push the car to the max to see what his handywork was capable of.

Well Moron, it was an opinion. Much like yours! My point, a guy walks into a dealer and drops 50-70k on a cobra. A very powerful RACE CAR! This person has plenty of MONEY and no ABILITY or EXPERIENCE driving a car with such power. Therefore, no business buying one until he does have some experience with a HP car. If you had read my further posts I agreed with Robin about insurance companies insuring a built car more easily than a home built kit. Like Robin said, it's a double ended sword.

Comparitively, I could walk into a store or hit up ebay and buy myself an airplane. I have never flown an airplane in my life. Now how much sense does that make?

I did not say that EVERYONE who buys their car goes out and crashes it. I'm saying that IMHO, those are the people who are more dangerous. But I completely agree that buying an assembled car could be safer for an insurance company. Not necessarily safer for you! Remember, the insurance company is only more willing to insure assembled cars because if it fails due to build quiality, they are not liable. Not because an assembled car is assembled any better than a kit.

Just out of curiosity, did you buy your car or did you build it from a kit? How much experience did you have with HP cars before buying/building your cobra? See, your ASSUMPTION could be biased. I was afraid that stating my opinion would upset some of the "buyers" in the thread. But chances are, if you are offended by my assumption. You are probably not the problem.

If you also read, Robin stated that most of the claims WERE originally rollers. So maybe my ASSUMPTION isn't as "moronic" as you think.

My point exactly, BDR gets 31k worth of INSURANCE repairs because the owner ran a red light...
Gettin' Down In the BDR!

Josh

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

Well Moron, it was an opinion. Much like yours! My point, a guy walks into a dealer and drops 50-70k on a cobra. A very powerful RACE CAR! This person has plenty of MONEY and no ABILITY or EXPERIENCE driving a car with such power. Therefore, no business buying one until he does have some experience with a HP car.

Comparitively, I could walk into a store or hit up ebay and buy myself an airplane. I have never flown an airplane in my life. Now how much sense does that make?


Just out of curiosity, did you buy your car or did you build it from a kit? How much experience did you have with HP cars before buying/building your cobra?


Josh

Sure you could go out and buy an airplane, but you couldn't legally fly it without (as pilot in command) without a license. Nor could you fly solo without an endorsement from a certified instructor. Get your license in a Cessna 150 and then want to fly an aircraft with retractable gear or variable pitch prop? No insurance company is going to cover you without an endorsement from a certified instructor. My suggestion was that the same should be true for HP cars.

As far as my experience, probably not near as much as most in this club but enough to have learned to respect the limitations of the vehicle and the laws of physics and the consequences of exceeding those laws. 60's muscle cars, MG's, Porsche's, Corvettes and 35 years of engineering experience.

As much as I would have liked to build my own, it's pretty much impossible when you're typically only home 4-6 days out of any given month. I have met some owners (so far only non-builders) who have absolutely no idea what is under the fiberglass (so far no aluminum ones) skin of their car and I wonder whether they're really in it because they love the car or the perceived status that it brings, but I still get tired of the frequent inferences that I just bought my way into this out of laziness with no thought for the responsibility driving a car like this carries.

[Naumoff]

Cobras have dominated the kit car market for sometime. I think we just have a lot of enthusiastic people who want one just because and do not have a full understanding and appreciation of what a Cobra is.

You are not to push a car(any car) to its limit on the public roads.
I choose to pick a safe environment to do that in.

Every driver should take safety classes on handling there vehicle no matter what kind it is. Driving my car to the limit in a safe supervised class does not make me want to push it to its limit on the street. Maybe that is just me.

[Cobrabill]

Comparing buying an airplane to buying a Cobra?

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Comparing buying an airplane to buying a Cobra?

Not too far fetched when you figure that most cobras will go faster than many light planes!

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Comparing buying an airplane to buying a Cobra?

Well if that is the only response you have to my MORONIC reply, then I guess I proved my point.

The comparison was to prove my point that anyone can walk into a dealership and buy a cobra. Much like I could go on ebay and buy an airplane. Without any experience, I guarantee with enough open area I can get that plane off the ground. Some people have no business in an airplane.. and some people have no business in a cobra... NOBODY has any business in either without a little experience!

IMO,(ugh oh, I have another one) the dealerships should require some form of drivers safety classes before selling the car. Especially companies like BDR, SPF, etc which sell the cars regularly. I think if they were more responsible dealers... we would have more responsible drivers! You know who you are if you have no experience and no business behind the wheel of a performance car. nuff said!

Josh

[fsstnotch]

I could see that I guess. I have read quite a few build journals where the people came right out and said they had no mechanical ability before starting the build.

Maybe it's because I have the ability to build another kit fairly easily that I am willing to insure for alot less than value? My best friend is a painter by profession so that's easy, I'll do all the work and he'll spray it.

I would definitely agree that higher deductibles would be good. It'd keep the little claims out at least. i know if I have $1000 worth of damages and a $500 deduct on my daily cars, I fix it myself. It's not worth an insurance claim. My wife put her car in the ditch a few months ago, the whole passenger side was messed up. I did the bodywork, paid for the materials and my friend repainted it. The repair quote was $3453, my deduct is $500. It cost me about $700 in materials and parts, plus about 10hrs of labor on my part. No insurance claim!

How about... if you have an at fault accident in a cobra, you get dropped?

I do like others requests for no milieage restrictions. I mean, I plan to do power tour with my friend in my cobra. there goes almost 2,000 miles right there! haha

I think people just need to be held accountable for THIER actions! PERIOD!

[Midwest Classic]

It's nice to have friends that can help with some of that resto work. I have three vehicles I want to finish for Spring 2008 and two additional I want to do Spring 2009. I am doing some work, a friend some other body work and another friend that will do the finish work and paint. If you are going to own cars it is much more fun and personally gratifying to do some work yourself, other than waxing!

In most cases mileage restrictions are never reached, there are exceptions. One of my carriers has a trip extension and the other we usually drop a note in the file on a long distance trip and they do not count those miles against them in their original 5,000. I had a guy that drove his Street Rod from Oregon to Arizona to Pennsylvania and back to Oregon. He actually had two claims along the way. Company checked with me about his mileage situation, I gave them a copy of an email where he told me his route and current odometer reading and the claims were paid and no he did not get cancelled.

[fsstnotch]

That's good to know. I'll definitely look into that when I start shopping for insurance! thanks!

Ya, friends are a definite help. I've watched him paint so many cars now that I'm sure I could do it myself. But we enjoy doing it together. He usually helps me with the body work and then i help him with the paint, mixing and stuff so all he has to do is spray. We considered becoming partners in the business, but I don't feel it's good to mix friendships with business. It always comes out bad!

Josh

[Midwest Classic]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

That's good to know. I'll definitely look into that when I start shopping for insurance! thanks!

Ya, friends are a definite help. I've watched him paint so many cars now that I'm sure I could do it myself. But we enjoy doing it together. He usually helps me with the body work and then i help him with the paint, mixing and stuff so all he has to do is spray. We considered becoming partners in the business, but I don't feel it's good to mix friendships with business. It always comes out bad!

Josh

Why ruin a perfect friendship with a business.

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by Midwest Classic

Why ruin a perfect friendship with a business.

Exactly!

[Silverback51]

Well as a new member, and someone planning on buying a Cobra in the next few weeks, this thread has been very informative.

Thank you Robbin for starting it.

You will probably be hearing from me shortly.

I did however have one comment regarding the deer at 1:30 story.

Deer generally bed down during the day and feed at night. It's not that unusual for them to be hit early in the morning.

[Midwest Classic]

You are welcome, it has been interesting and I have printed off 28 pages so far of information to go back through and review.

I realize that information about the deer, I use to bow hunt in my earl days, but I guess when you sit where I sit a lot of times when someone goes off the road there is a deer involved. My son also had story when the '66 Mustang he was driving ran off the road and took out a sign attached to a 4x4 post. He found out what pedal power was all about!

[Cobrabill]

Sorry folks-Warren is correct.There are a lot of companies that will NOT insure a "kit car"do to build quality(unknown).Numerous telephone conversations went from negative to positive as soon as they found out i had a factory assembled car.( Superformance)

[olddog]

Robbin,

Is your purpose of this thread to wake us up, and hopefully reduce the claims? Or is the purpose to look for solutions to the claims problems? Since you are not the insurance company, I doubt you have much influance in the policies, but I may be wrong.

One thought that came to my mind is that driving a car you are not familar with certainly makes handling in adverse conditions harder to do, at least that is my experiance. My policy has a 3000 mile per year maximum. I understand I can purchase more miles/year. I also understand that from the insurance companies perspective, the more miles driven, the more opertunities for an accident. However, one would think that if the "driving school improves skills and therefore reduces accidents" theory is correct then restricting driving experiance (miles/year) would also be counter productive.

Now the driving school makes since to me. I think Cobras are different than a lot of classic cars in that they are the ultamate performance car. Many other classic cars are purely for show, in the owners mind (certainly not all). Those that are extream performance cars are more likely to be originals that are not replaceable. From this I suspect Cobra replica owners are more likely to treat their car as a performance machine than other classic car owners. This differance may mean that what reduces claims in other classic cars may actually increase claims with Cobra owners. So it may be interesting to compare actual miles driven per year (life time total as well) verses claims.

[Midwest Classic]

Originally Posted by olddog

Robbin,

Is your purpose of this thread to wake us up, and hopefully reduce the claims? Or is the purpose to look for solutions to the claims problems? Since you are not the insurance company, I doubt you have much influance in the policies, but I may be wrong.

One thought that came to my mind is that driving a car you are not familar with certainly makes handling in adverse conditions harder to do, at least that is my experiance. My policy has a 3000 mile per year maximum. I understand I can purchase more miles/year. I also understand that from the insurance companies perspective, the more miles driven, the more opertunities for an accident. However, one would think that if the "driving school improves skills and therefore reduces accidents" theory is correct then restricting driving experiance (miles/year) would also be counter productive.

Now the driving school makes since to me. I think Cobras are different than a lot of classic cars in that they are the ultamate performance car. Many other classic cars are purely for show, in the owners mind (certainly not all). Those that are extream performance cars are more likely to be originals that are not replaceable. From this I suspect Cobra replica owners are more likely to treat their car as a performance machine than other classic car owners. This differance may mean that what reduces claims in other classic cars may actually increase claims with Cobra owners. So it may be interesting to compare actual miles driven per year (life time total as well) verses claims.

The purpose was really both. Make people aware of a trend that I see and to find out what can be done to try assist in making sure the program does not go away for Cobras.

Actually you mentioned I probably do not have any influence that is really incorrect. I was able to convince the carrier to reduce rates for modified vehicles (which includes the Cobras). Up until about four years ago we did not write Cobras as the Company took the same approach that Hagerty did. When I asked them why they really did not have an answer and decided to proceed with caution in writing these. With specialty type of insurance such as Collector Car the Companies do listen to the agents that are writing the bulk of the business on these. We write in 40 States ourselves compared to your local agent that probably writes in 1.

So if I understand what you are saying since Cobras are performance vehicles we should expect the owners will possibly be driving these as performance vehicles. As far as the miles going in we can only underwrite what people have had in their past history. We do not write someone that has had more than one at fault accident/speed in the past three years. So all those miles you talk about are taken into consideration at the time we write their insurance. What goes wrong is after that and how the person operates the vehicle when they take ownership. We have Street Rodders that put 2 to 3 times the miles that the Cobra owner does on their car and there were ZERO claims from them in the 10 I mentioned over $10,000 and many of these cars are well in excess of what a typical Cobra costs.

It basically comes down to how someone drives a performance vehicle. If the vehicles are being driven within the speeds allowed by the States there probably will never be a problem.

[olddog]

As far as home built verses factory roller, I see both sides. Yes there are idiots among us, but they are not the majority. Cobra kits can vary widely, but most are well designed and mostly require getting the bolts propperly tightened. I really doubt there are many accidents due to poorly assembled kits. Equally I would bet there have been a few factory assembled cars with some mistakes. I doubt this is a huge factor one way or the other.

Unfortunately the data given is too small a group to be statistically useful. Only seven claims out who knows how many insured Cobras.

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by olddog

Unfortunately the data given is too small a group to be statistically useful. Only seven claims out who knows how many insured Cobras.

Agreed!